Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Color as it relates to the egg (fertilization) ability to see the relationship between the carotenoid and egg color. Why does a chicken egg get redder when they eat bugs? Why do most seed eating birds eat bugs when they are getting ready to nest? Why do most seed eating birds even humming birds feed bugs to their youngsters?

The answer is carotenoids they happen to express color but it concentrated in the egg. Salmon eggs are pink it is the carotenoid concentrations making the color. Chicken eggs are yellow but orange-red when healthy. Skin color is a condition of health and as a snake synthesizes the vitamins for sickness or egg laying skin color might fade. So yes skin color will fade over time but there is a reason.

It is similar to someone who is in critical health in the hospital getting white as the body tries to synthesize vitamins. There is a reason carotenoids concentrate in the ovaries, think about it.
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

>>Color as it relates to the egg (fertilization) ability to see the relationship between the carotenoid and egg color. Why does a chicken egg get redder when they eat bugs? Why do most seed eating birds eat bugs when they are getting ready to nest? Why do most seed eating birds even humming birds feed bugs to their youngsters?
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>>The answer is carotenoids they happen to express color but it concentrated in the egg. Salmon eggs are pink it is the carotenoid concentrations making the color. Chicken eggs are yellow but orange-red when healthy. Skin color is a condition of health and as a snake synthesizes the vitamins for sickness or egg laying skin color might fade. So yes skin color will fade over time but there is a reason.
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>>It is similar to someone who is in critical health in the hospital getting white as the body tries to synthesize vitamins. There is a reason carotenoids concentrate in the ovaries, think about it.
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My response was because of the color change in the snake you mentioned. Carotine is added to the diet of animals for color also. I realize that you are talking about the effects of reproduction but I was commenting on the similarity it has for color in animals other than snakes.
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Steve W.

Here is what we have done, gee look I got a lizard eating snake to eat mice. We then expect they should be happy and reproduce like corn snakes that have evolved to eat mice. Ever notice the snakes that have problems reproducing are the ones that have different eating habits in the wild. I think we need to take a step back and look at the whole picture. Most gravid caught female snakes have bullet proof eggs and healthy offspring, my opinion is that captive specimens have anemic eggs unless we take a measure to compensate for the tweaking we have done, common sense. Color is a by product of good health nothing more.
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

>My response was because of the color change in the snake you >mentioned. Carotine is added to the diet of animals for color >also. I realize that you are talking about the effects of >reproduction but I was commenting on the similarity it has for >color in animals other than snakes.

Beta Carotine is only one of 600 carotenoids. The carotenoids that target reproduction are Astaxanthin, Cantaxanthin and Lutine. Beta Carotine is short term while the others are color stable and can remain in the host for years.

Funny but the above three carotenoids are all found in (wild) bird eggs! Guess how the store bought eggs get color? They supplement them with synthetic version of the above carotenoids! I know I have all the data from the former Roche Pharmaceutical the company that supplies the chicken industry.
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

I noticed the carotenoids you mentioned are available as supplements for fish, live stock, and even humans. If using these supplements, what dosage would you recommend for snake? Mils/kil if it's applicable?

I might give it a shot on my female that thows kinked babies every year. If I could rule out genetics, I'd be thrilled.

Thanks,
Tom Anderson

What I have done is dehydrated the following, Whole crayfish, whole differential grasshopper, whole egg yoke and baby carrot powder. I have been testing this mix for a few months. It is a whole food and there should be no danger of overdose. These are natural occurring foods with high levels of all the Carotenoids I am after some 400 in all. I will be testing it over the next year to make sure snakes do not die but I use what I would consider a mega-dose with no ill affects to date. In addition I noticed some of my sluggish feeders have kicked into gear and look forward to the food. I put the powder into a capsule and insert into mice or whatever. I will keep you all posted. I have tried it on about seven species so far.

I have worked suplimenting carotenoids for the last ten years or so and the above formula is the best I can do so far. You can use egg yoke cut with water by 50% and inject mice, it works well.
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

While you are at it you may want to look at adding calcium and vitamin D3 to the mix. I understand the D3 is much higher in diurnal lizards than in any rodent and it is needed to process the calcium.

Lance

There is natural high usable calcium in the carrot and crayfish within the mix that was one of my considerations. I use natural sun for the D3
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

When we think of diet we never visualize a snake drinking milk or eating grass but when a snake consumes pink mice or lactating females they get a dose of milk. When they consume wild mice with a gut full of grass they are eating partially digested grass so the carrots in the above formula is fitting.
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

gut loading has been done for years, especially in crickets... For a few days before the big day you feed the food item some special meals to load them up with what you want passed along.

Could be done by those of us lucky enough to raise mice as feeders.

Lance

I HAVE USED FLAMINGO CHOW TO GUT LOAD MICE BUT I LIKE THE PILLS BETTER
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

synthetic versions then. Since you seem to know just about everything, I would think you could find who produces these synthetic versions. If every egg on a store shelf has been treated, then I would imagine that this miracle juice would be pretty cheap.

Yes synthetic is avalable in 5 LB bags that would last until the next mellenium. While Cantaxanthin (in the synthetic version) is nature exact the Astaxanthin and Lutine are not. I have found a high enough consintration of all three from natural sources to acheive the results I am after without the worry of killing my stuff. Ther is some worry about liver problems with some of the synthetic in to large of an amount as well as cantaxanthin in the synthetic version causing crystalization in the Cornea which is reversable over time.
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

Damn dude, you really do know everything. Keep us posted on your findings. In the meantime I'll just keep feeding mine the occasional lizard.