Reptile & Amphibian Forums

For those who feed lizards as first meals to neonates -

In the past, I've force-fed baby alterna mouse parts to get non-eaters started. Now, we are living in FL and have hundreds of non-native cuban brown anoles in our yard (and very very few native green anoles... maybe 1/100, but that's a different topic). We caught some, froze them, and fed them out with good results. Our backyard lizard supply is much greater than our snakes' demand as long as the weather's warm.

Can the pathogens in wildcaught lizards survive a week in the freezer? Will we need to treat the snakes for parasites when we get them switched over to pinkies?

Thank you,
Tom Anderson

>>Can the pathogens in wildcaught lizards survive a week in the freezer? Will we need to treat the snakes for parasites when we get them switched over to pinkies?
>>
>>Thank you,
>>Tom Anderson

In my opinion the risk of parasites is extremely low after a good solid freeze on the lizard as a food item, you are more likely to introduce parasites by cross contaminating between a WC enclosure and CB enclosure (using a WC animal as a breeder can transfer junk to the CB animal you pair it with, or not washing hands or items moved between enclosures).

You are not the only person with a problem feeder that gives a frozen lizard or two before they decide to switch over...

Lance

Tom -

I don't know if you've tried this, but I've had great results -

I'm in FL too, (north of Tampa). I catch an anole and put it in a 1 quart freezer bag. I then put a ft pinky in with the anole and rub them together several times. I then release the anole and feed the pinky out. It has worked every time I've tried. I'll probably freeze a couple anoles and continue this when it is cold (if I still need to scent).

That way environmental factors are less of an issue. Try giving it a shot... and let us know what happens.

Bill

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WJS Herps
Brooksville, Fl
Bill & Jennifer Smoot

I think a part of the plan was to harvest out some introduced species anyway

Honestly I wish I was better informed as to the actual answer but living in FL as well (Pinellas I have been utilizing the abundance of free anoles to supplement some of my problem feeders. I do tend to catch a bunch on a given day and allow them to be frozen for a moth or so before use... I feel better and safer being this precautious but honestly I'm not sure if it's even enough... Just remember to stockpile some prior to our 'winter.' Furthermore, the notion of culling the non-indigenous brown anoles at least lets me pretend I'm doing some service for our local ecosystem's diversity.

Chris Nickelson

This is my opinion (MY OPINION). Parasites are overrated. I think it all started back when gobs of sickly imports would come in. The real issue was stress combined with very unsanitary conditions. Then the academics (quote from Retes) wrote their books. Better treat for parasites, the reality is an already stressed animal having Gosh knows what dieing in the blood stream, muscle tissue, lung tissue once treated with wormers and the like.

Well then you give um antibiotics so you can kill all the beneficial bacteria in their gut that is helping them digest food and wha-La now we read passages written by scholars inspired by the importers! You now have snakes that cannot digest food and resurge.

The reality is that wild snakes that are 10 years old and having eaten countless hundreds of wild meals have no problem whatsoever! We catch them and control the stress by giving them the first few meals of what they want before tweaking their diet to get them over the hump.

You can freeze all the crypto that you want but guess what you will still introduce crypto into your animals. Yes there will always be risk in a wild diet but there is risk in life. I choose to not listen to the (academics and have had virtually no problem with my many many imports without any drugs whatsoever.

It all boils down to an understanding of what is needed at a basic level for the health and welfare of an animal. Yes it is nice to have sterile animals but guess what even domestic mice have parasites! So I think some of the antiquated information being pushed in books needs to be re-written.

Just my opinion.
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

Just like young Iguanas eating fecal material to get their digestive system in gear I think a starter lizard does more than just get them eating. My assumption is that it is a way for the digestive bacteria to get introduced into the Greyband hatchling. I doubt a pink mouse has to much digestive bacteria a hatchling greyband can use. Guess I can just feed mine milk!
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."