return to main index

  mobile - desktop
follow us on facebook follow us on twitter follow us on YouTube link to us on LinkedIn
Click to visit LLL Reptile  
Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You
Locate a business by name: click to list your business
search the classifieds. buy an account
events by zip code list an event
Search the forums             Search in:
News & Events: Amphibian gut bacteria showing promise in cancer research . . . . . . . . . .  Herp Photo of the Day . . . . . . . . . .  Greater Cincinnati Herp Society Meeting - Mar 04, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Chicago Herpetological Society Meeting - Mar 15, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Colorado Herp Society Meeting - Mar 21, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Bay Area Herpetological Society Meeting - Mar 27, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  DFW Herp Society Meeting - Mar 28, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Tucson Herpetological Society Meeting - Mar 30, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Greater Cincinnati Herp Society Meeting - Apr 01, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  PACNWRS - Apr. 18-19, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Colorado Herp Society Meeting - Apr 18, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Chicago Herpetological Society Meeting - Apr 19, 2026 . . . . . . . . . . 
Join USARK - Fight for your rights!
full banner - advertise here .50¢/1000 views
Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You
pool banner - $50 year

RE: Timber vs. Canebrake

[ Login ] [ User Prefs ] [ Search Forums ] [ Back to Main Page ] [ Back to Taxonomy Discussion ] [ Reply To This Message ]
[ Register to Post ]

Posted by: justinian2120 at Tue Sep 19 17:31:49 2006  [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by justinian2120 ]  
   

i dunno about that-regardless of what we call them from fla. to texas to new hampshire-yellow rattlers,velvet rattlers,velvet tails,canebrakes,timbers,black rattlers-what you have is a species that has two-maybe three- niches/clades/whatever;north,south,and perhaps west,though this last group seems to have a less clearly defined dilineation from the former two than they do from each other.i don't know too much about the western populations(and have precious little first hand experience with the southerns as well)-but i sure can see plenty justification for at least separating the southern from the northern/montanes(i.e. timbers and canebrakes seperate subsp. again)....

more often than not,i am moreso a 'lumper' than a 'splitter'-but i mean really,one has to wonder how can these be considered less different from each other than,say, such 'valid' subspecies as your triangulum,getula,or what about the black racer,in which the northern and southerns can only be differentiated from each other if they are males(difference in just the hemipenes)?...this being the taxonomic 'order of the day',then i just don't see how they should be considered one and the same.not talking about appearences,but just totally different habits/niches/ecosystems they occur in.

that being said i remember beign told that,i believe thru mitochondrial dna testing,the timbers in south jersey-the pine barrens-were,genetically speaking,most closely related to those along the gulf coast area,i beleive louisiana-very surprising...i don't claim to be an expert on these amazing,facinating snakes,but man i find them to be one of the most intruiging species in our country.
-----
"with head raised regally,and gazing at me with lidless eyes,he seemed to question with flicks of his long forked tongue my right to trespass on his territory" Carl Kauffeld


   

[ Reply To This Message ] [ Subscribe to this Thread ] [ Hide Replies ]


>> Next topic:  Subspeciescomparisonof the Genus:Corucia - Pilirin, Fri Sep 22 18:11:33 2006
<< Previous topic:  Pseudemys concinna - Reptilecraz2323, Sun Sep 10 10:04:23 2006
Click here for Dragon Serpents Click here to visit Classifieds Click to visit Brass Man Reptiles
KINGSNAKE.COM

Enjoy all our content free of charge with a user account that gives you full access to every feature. For added visibility, paid options are available - post in our Classifieds, showcase your business with Banner Ads or a Directory listing, promote reptile events, and more.

Quick Links
Community
Legal & Safety
Support

Register for free ✓ Sign up!

Kingsnake.com ® is a registered trademark © 1997-