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RE: On a side note

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Posted by: reptoman at Mon Nov 17 15:03:57 2008  [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by reptoman ]  

Whether these lizards are all concluded under hernandezi
that doesn't bother me, but if it is a douglassi, or ornatissimum, or indeed hernandezi hernandezi, or some other designation, it seems at the moment that I see three different short horned lizard types in Arizona. There may be more but all three fall unto in my mind in he vain of the old descriptions of the short horns and the nuances that they display. There are distinctive differences(ergo the reason for posting the picture) I thought the picture was an interesting one, and I appreciate you pointing out what it probably and is actually.
I have a permit to actually keep hernandezi from Texas and might take a trip out to picture these and document these lizards when I go to Marks this Spring. These lizards while short horns indeed look different from the ones in New Mexico at 9,000 ft from Ruidoso which I have actually collected years ago. So there are nuances, I see them and I know you see them, I commented on this particular short horned because it was not in my opinion a douglassi, nor was it hernandezi in the sense of the old descriptions, the ornatissimum, is fine--I haven't spent a lot of time on this stuff Jeff, but I do see the differences, and so does one just forget scale counts because of DNA? Recently McGuire's work on Collared Lizards shows that reticulated collards have collaris DNA? So as the DNA thing becomes more aggressive I think we will see a lot of changes, as far as more difficult, or more species, I just meant that it seemed easy to me from my finite perspective and understanding; for someone to put all short horns under hernandezi. What I am referring too is--When I look at sites on states where short horns are found and described they are called Henandezi but rarely with any other designation yet I recognize these lizards as being different that the ones I collected say in New Mexico, different enough to be able to describe the differences in detail as the old scale counting herpetologists did. So I don't want to become inflexible especially in a field that is wide open, and I can learn new tricks for sure I am not that old, but I do see these differences and sometime it is a little hard to swallow, hopefully Richards work will make a difference. Also with respect to goodie, I have only seen a few pictures of goodie, and it seems as though these can be described by their nuance differences as well? Am I wrong about that? I believe I talked to Mark about the looks of the pictures I had seen of these and I immediately not knowing they were goodie thought they were great looking lizards and thought there was something slightly different. So your saying that experts are saying we must have DNA evidence to call it a goodie? It seems if they are indeed goodie, there should be some descriptive scale counts, head or horn shapes, tail length, femoral pores, etc. etc. or other descriptive that would make it different say than a platy?
As always its a pleasure to discuss this stuff with you, and I just wanted to make what I was saying a little more clear. And I do appreciate your input, and yes I may be a little bit of an old fart when it comes to this stuff, but I am also open--but open to reason, especially when it is clear to me the nuances are totally describable and the differences are clear.......


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