Kris,

Well, as aforementioned in earlier posts, I have had antivenin ambitions for years, and though for a sincere purpose of creating more of a supply which may hopefully lower the price per vial for victims, I will admit I have seen the business potential of going into such a profession. I can believe $1,500 per vial for sure, and if 32 vials indeed--crazy difference from someone else on here who mentioned only needing four (4), but this obviously depends on MANY variables such as species, venom yield, and immunity, this I know--numbers don't lie! $48K for antivenin...wow!

But it still doesn't discourage me.

On a last note regarding this story, never look at "what ifs" or "could haves" too much, as it can make one dwell and go crazy on alternative outcomes that just - didn't - occur! Everything happens for a reason/has a purpose and is meant to happen, the good and especially the bad, and Destiny will decide on what does happen!

Consider Your friend of fortune indeed, but do not dwell on what he could have lost as it amounts to nothing.

In response to Your last part referencing "windchild" inquiring about "similar" aggressive non-venomous snakes - did you not catch my reply to Chris/"millet"?!?? Here: http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1899369,1900964. I stated:

'I like what You say about the irrelevance of dealing with a large, nervous, and aggressive harmless colubrid not being the same as the "real thing." The fact the realization of Your life being on the line when dealing with hots changes ALL dimensions physical and mental, I would think. And indeed, 'coming to learn, fear, and respect the animal for the ultimate power and perfection that it beholds' (to quote myself of an earlier message, haha), and utilizing common sense, practicality, logic, exhibiting safe practices, and maintaining a clear head while dealing with hots is what I see as keeping You all--and soon, myself--as safe as Destiny permits.'

Thus, I was in agreement with Chris/"millet" which is what You, Kris, are saying now, too. The closest implication I gave to starting with something else first was stated in my second response to "windchild":

'In conclusion, I believe getting started with (nervous) opisthoglyphous snakes like I have worked with for 10-plus years would be beneficial, and thus perhaps what You are looking for.'

Sure, they're not life-threatening hots, but baby steps, right? One step at a time? It's as though You imply since nothing else is like dealing with a life-threatening hot, even someone who hasn't kept ONE herp could just start with hots because they're such a different ballpark...

You have to know how to handle a calm, and harmless, snake before You can do nervous/aggressive snakes (still harmless), large boids, then opsithoglyphous species - especially nervous/aggressive ones! - which can still send someone to the medical room albeit won't be fatal (minus Dispholidus typus and Thelotornis spp.). This is all in my opinion. "wildchild" obviously has herp experience, but I suppose I believe one cannot just jump from Corn Snakes to hots and learn anew as though harmless snake-experience has no significance...because now, You're dealing with death. I've spent 20 years building up my experience from 'group' to group or 'type' to type. I don't think someone keeping harmless stuff for a year or two should get to work with hots next...

Is this making sense? Sorry, but I keep replaying what I have typed as I type more, and it's like this can only be explained in so many words. :/ It's simple logic to me...

In the end, again, I was in agreement with Chris/"millet" as I am You, Kris.

Timothy

>>Tim...
>>
>>Let me relate a story from firsthand knowledge so that my claim of a "$50,000 snakebite" can be substantiated. This didn't happen to me, but I was there when it happened so I can personally vouch for it.
>>
>>A couple friends and I were hiking in western Arizona, when one of my friends found a female Crotalus mitchelli pyrrhus (southwestern speckled rattlesnake). He was standing on a jumble of decomposed granite when the snake was spotted, and as he tried to move, a rock slid out from under his foot and he slipped. When he did so, he (understandably) stuck his left arm out to break his fall. The only problem is that in doing so he inadvertently placed his hand a little too close to the snake. The snake bit him on the knuckle of his left thumb and penetrated with one fang. I saw this happen so I can say with 100% certainty that this is EXACTLY what happened...no daredevil tricks, no stupid liberties taken. If you field herp in "rattlesnake country" this scenario could very easily happen to you.
>>
>>I'll fast forward to the hospital stay, which lasted 3 days in ICU. His entire arm had swelled up grotesquely, and he had apparent bruising from his armpit all the way down to about halfway down torso. I was there to witness this firsthand, and I can tell you that from his perspective this definitely was NOT a pleasant experience.
>>
>>The reason I'm telling you this is because in all he received 32 vials of CroFab...at a cost of approximately $1500.00 a vial...so, some quick calculation here....1500.00*32=$48,000.00! This of course does not include any physician fees, administration fees or any other fees relating to the incidient...this $48,000.00 represents ONLY the cost of the CroFab itself. Luckily, he had GREAT medical insurance and (because this was not a "captive snake" incident), his insurance company covered the majority of the costs.
>>
>>A year later, he has suffered no long term effects from the bite...no loss of dexterity of the thumb or anything...he was lucky. We talk often about what the situation would have been like had the snake got him with BOTH fangs...it would have been decidedly nasty.
>>
>>Sorry, I don't have a copy of the medical bill.
>>
>>With reference to the other poster stating he wanted to work with a harmless snake to prepare him for venomous...This sounds good, and I can even see the logic in thinking this way...But in my opinion there really is no substitute for working with venomous...I don't know how to explain it, except to say that there's just something subconscious about knowing that the snake on the other end of your hook or tongs is fully capable of ending your life. That knowledge (and the corresponding way one responds to it) just can't be simulated.
>>
>>I'm not saying it's a BAD idea to work with pissy non-vens...any experience is good experience in that regard...what I AM saying is that it is unrealistic to think that any amount of experience with a non-ven is going to prepare you for working with vens. Mentally (and reflexively) it just isn't so (at least not in my experience).
>>
>>-Kris


-----
T.J. Gould

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