Thats what I am saying, monitors do not sense things or label things like we do. They have a far better sense of knowing then we do. They use sight, feel and smell, if not more, those dang lip pits. With smell, they "understand" "realize" the workings of material in a realistic way. As in, a usable way.

Which is what makes this termite mound thing funny, In our cages, its a box, not a termite mound.

Its like using the term aboreal when talking about a cage thats taller then wide. That shape does not define aboreal, being UP high in a tree is aboreal. Yet most people call a tall cage an aboreal cage and think the animal thinks the same thing.

Or thinking substrate is the earth or ground. Its not the ground, its stuff on the bottom of the cage.

A silly example of this type of thinking is when a monitor gets out of a cage. Keepers think its out. Well if the cage is in a room, its not out, its out of a cage in a room. Its still in, then its down a hallway, then possibly out the door to the outside, when outside, monitors absolutely understand that. And that is not to be confused with being locked in a house, but out of a cage.

These type things are conceptual things, I do not think a tall cage is aboreal, or the dirt on the ground is the earth, or a box is a termite mound.

I simply offer conditions and see what the animals pick, Then if they pick something, try to improve it until it works really well.

Where that sits in our conversation is, a little box(whatever you want to call it) thats in a big box, the cage. None of these are wild, or termite mounds.

We have found that if varanids have choices they can increase their production by lowering stress levels.

Twenty some odd years ago, you could argue failure vs. success, hopefully these days, some of us can discuss different levels of success.

For instance I asked how many clutches per year and how many eggs. This is yearly reproductive effort. Reproductive effort is how you gauge success.

An example is, one method routinely results in one medium clutch a year, other two clutches. Or another method, results in five or more. obviously five clutches are superior to one or two. Right?

Not exactly, reptiles can produce small clutches or large clutches. As I mentioned, we had at least three females produce five clutches a year. These clutches were normally five eggs. So a total of 25 eggs per year.

Our largest clutch was 11 eggs, So two large clutches can equal or surpass five small clutches.

These are numbers, its these numbers that can make an actual discussion, not Lacies are termite mound nesters.

As I/we already understand lacies can and do nest in other ways, so how do we tell which way or method is best? How? Well you compare numbers, thats how.

Yet, no one wants to compare numbers. They want to discuss obligate this or that. Which is out of context with captivity.

Many years ago I told Crocdoc, if lacies require termite mounds, then I am screwed, because we do not have them. But I wasn't screwed, I produced many many lacies from several females. All without termite mounds or nest boxes.

Which is entirely the point. Which is better, got me, these folks do not want to compare numbers. Truth is, how great would it be if one of our methods out produced the other. Thats a win win situation.

Again, truth is, I tested nest boxes, dirt, leaflitter, comb inations of those. And I have results. All I ask is, what are the results so we can actually compare and understand.

My bet is, if you built a cage of a termite mound in nature, a lacie may not use it. As it may have lost its advantage by being covered and not exposed to the sun. Just a thought. Thanks

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