F:...when you say, they are obligate termite mount nesters, then your saying that is ALL they genetically can only nest in those termite mounds.

No, when I say they are obligate termite mound nesters in (at least) a good chunk of their range it's because to nest anywhere else would mean failure, as the eggs wouldn't survive the winter. Studies have shown that even eggs laid in termite mounds, but in which the termite colonies later died, did not survive the winter. There's strong selective pressure against nesting anywhere but termite mounds here. Nothing else is implied by 'obligate'.

F:I will now ask you a question. Can lizards such as lacies, invent new ways to nest? That is, can they cognitively figure out methods to nest when there are no termite mounds available?

Yes, of course they can invent new ways to nest if they have to. I will now ask you a question - why force them to? If you have a species known to do X in the wild and we are able to approximate X in captivity, why force them to do Y?

The reason I started this thread on nest box exceptions was because we know we don't have to force them to nest elsewhere in the absence of a termite mound, for the conditions within a termite mound can be easily mimicked with a nest box. It's known to work, not just here in my home, but with many other breeders I know. If you'd never had a female die of reproductive failure, we wouldn't even be having this conversation for we'd both agree that anything goes with this species. That doesn't seem to be the case, though.

We all know that offering a monitor options is the key to success, so in my opinion not offering a lace monitor a nest box is removing an important option and forcing them to nest in a manner that is out of the norm for them. Yes, they'll 'make do', but the end result is delayed nesting and, eventually, reproductive failure. You've had stacks of experience with breeding monitors - surely you must question the loss of all of your female lace monitors to reproductive failure? If you'd seen photos of termite mounds like those I've posted in this thread before your nesting female scraped out the inside of a hollow log, would you have interpreted what she was trying to do differently?

I'll tell you a funny story that relates to this. A number of years ago, a documentary crew wanted to film a female lace monitor laying eggs, viewed from within the nest. One of those things that would be a logistical nightmare to do in the wild, but theoretically easy to do in captivity. In preparation, I drilled a hole in the side of the enclosure so a tube could be installed into the side of nest box. The tube would lead to the outside enclosure and would allow the lens to be inserted into the nesting tunnel. The cameraman was going to build a special nest box to accommodate the tube and I gave him the specifications. I winter my lacies, so it's quite easy for me to time reproductive events based on when I choose to start warming them up and feeding them, as the female is like clockwork. I told the cameraman and producer exactly which day the pair would start mating, giving me a rough idea (to within a week) of when she'd lay, so it would coincide with when the cameraman was already booked to be in town with his gear to shoot another segment for the same documentary. It was all going according to plan - the pair started mating on the exact weekend I told the producer they'd start. I had even sent both him and the cameraman photographs of the pair mating, next to a Saturday newspaper displaying the date. This was part of a running joke between us and I still have the photographs:



I had expected the new nest box to arrive before the pair started mating, but the cameraman got caught up with other things and was delayed. I had already removed the usual nest box in preparation, which was a major mistake on my part. The female started looking around for nest spots, as she always does at the start of a cycle, and this is where it gets interesting. In the absence of a nest box, one day while I was at work she started to scratch away at the mock rock near one of the basking sites. The mock rock has the same texture and feel as the surface of a termite mound (albeit a bit harder) and it was warm because of the basking surface nearby, so her choice was not surprising to me. There was a deep layer of substrate in the enclosure (I was still using leaf litter at the time, but have been experimenting with other substrates since), but she didn't give that much more than a cursory dig. The mock rock, however, she worried at until she found a weak spot and by the time I got home from work she had dug a burrow through the tough polyurethane elastomer outer coat of the mock rock and into the polyurethane foam backing. No mean feat, even with weaknesses in the mock rock. The cameraman eventually sent up the modified nest box and I put it into place, but it was too late. Although the female went through the process of looking gravid I didn't see her ovulate and she didn't end up laying. She'd resorbed the clutch. I've never mucked with her nest box since. That's why she still has the same nest box she's always had, even though she's grown a lot over the years. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. This is her a day or two before laying - she has no difficulty digging into that little hole, turning around and laying.

[ Reply To This Message ] [ Subscribe to this Thread ] [ Show Entire Thread ]