>>and I still consider bairdi to be part of the Pantherophis obsoletus complex, myself - I don't agree with the split...
>>
>>
>>Toby,
>>
>>I don't agree. I think bairdii and obsoleta show a very clear boundary where the two species come together and rarely hybridize. Think about the boundaries between the other taxa within the obsoleta group. They all intergrade over a wide area. Yet goo obsoleta and good bairdii can be found within a mile of each other in the hills of central Texas.
>>That was the basis on which they were separated and it still holds true today.
>>
>>Chris
>>-----
>>Chris Harrison
>>San Antonio, Texas

Chris,

And yet, hybrids do occur - not to the extent of intergradation of the other subs, but they do... Anyway, I am not a taxonomist, and bairdi is well accepted as its own separate taxon from the obsoletus group - so my opinion means nothing anyway. Also, I do / did understand the reasoning behind the split, and was just stating my opinion.
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-Toby Brock
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

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