And yet, hybrids do occur - not to the extent of intergradation of the other subs, but they do...

Yes, they do although what constitutes a bairdii x obsoleta hybrid is up for debate. The criteria for recognizing one are a bit vague.

Here's a snake from Lost Maples State Park that was collected (legally) as a possible hybrid. However Dixon (2000) recorded it as the largest bairdii ever found...so who knows what it was. It certainly had the personality of an obsoleta!

BTW - not trying to change your mind...I just find the discussion interesting. When you look at a bairdii, they certainly do "seem" like obsoletus. I suspect they were a western population of obsoletus that was separated for a time and have come back together and now have weak reproductive isolation. Even though they come right up to each other's habitat/range, they rarely seem to interbreed (much like Milksnakes/Scarlet Kings in the southeast). If they were the same species, intergrades would be the norm in the contact zone.

On a second, unrelated note....I need to get off my a$$ and join your group. I'm not sure why I haven't in the past, except maybe that it requires a paper form rather than just registering and paying online.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

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