return to main index

  mobile - desktop
follow us on facebook follow us on twitter follow us on YouTube link to us on LinkedIn
Click here for LLL Reptile & Supply
This Space Available
3 months for $50.00
Locate a business by name: click to list your business
search the classifieds. buy an account
events by zip code list an event
Search the forums             Search in:
News & Events: Herp Photo of the Day: Horned Lizard . . . . . . . . . .  Herp Photo of the Day: Black Racer . . . . . . . . . .  All Maryland Reptile Show - Apr. 01, 2023 . . . . . . . . . .  Richmond Reptile Expo - Apr. 08, 2023 . . . . . . . . . .  Exoticon Pet Expo Chesapeake - April 08-09, 2023 . . . . . . . . . .  Northern Virginia Reptile Show - Apr. 15, 2023 . . . . . . . . . .  Exoticon Pet Expo Salisbury MD - April 22-23, 2023 . . . . . . . . . .  Ozone/Exoticon Pet Expo Georgia - May 05-07 2023 . . . . . . . . . .  All Maryland Reptile Show - May 06, 2023 . . . . . . . . . .  East Coast Reptile Super Expo - May 13, 2023 . . . . . . . . . .  Reptiles At The York Expo Center - May 20, 2023 . . . . . . . . . .  All Maryland Reptile Show - June 03, 2023 . . . . . . . . . . 

full banner - advertise here .50/1000 views
We are Magellan Explorer, a pet animals export company, and do feeders export as well.
$50 banner pool - click here

RE: For VICtort, about diet, from below

[ Login ] [ User Prefs ] [ Search Forums ] [ Back to Main Page ] [ Back to Monitors ] [ Reply To This Message ]
[ Register to Post ]

Posted by: FR at Fri Aug 10 12:10:17 2012  [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by FR ]  

Hello. The problem is and again, CONTEXT. most if not all of these diet arguements here on KS, are not about me or The crayfish guy or Crocdoc. They are started by a newbie. That is the context. A person new to the hobby.

Our hobby has very very few actual successful keepers and is filled with failing husbandry. Yet all talk like experts. Yes, they are experts, just not successful husbandry experts. Again context.

So the recomendation of mice or rodents, is intended for the newbie. Not other so called experts( I say so called, because the way they argue, I have to question the depth of their knowledge, they appear very insecure)

For a newbie with a larger species, rodents are KNOWN and proven and easily available. They have proven superior in all aspects, such as supporting growth, reproduction, color, and longevity. I think I would be STUPID to not recomend that.

Back to context, what others do is want to offer a newbie, a multiple choice answer, when the newbie has not learned how the MAKE THAT CHOICE YET!

As I mentioned, other food items are OK, which means they work ok. But rodents are proven, which should give the newbie a solid base to work FROM.

As you mentioned, its caging that supports the success of varanids. That is WHAT NEEDS attention. The crayfish boys are a bit odd about that, they only talk about crayfish and one species of monitor. I cannot figure that out, so they can explain it if they so desire.

You mentioned food items and color. Which has some valid points. If you have to add a certain type of prey item to recieve normal colors, then the original prey base is LACKING. That is true with many reptiles and also true to a point with varanids. Unhealthy varanids are drab. Healthy varanids are vibrant.

To that point, I will post pictures of varanids that were raised without UV bulbs and on mice that are more colorful, and vibrant then you can imagine. I will go toe to toe with anyone. I pray there are some out there with equally colorful and vibrant monitors. I sure hope there is. If there is, I would not be the loser, It would be a win win win win type of thing.

What I am saying here is your theory about varied diet is logical, but has been proven obsolete. A varied diet is of benefit only if the all the items are lacking and other items must overcome that lack.

Now for the lesson. My vet taught me some valueable lessons. He told me that many food items subtract from the value and others add. Like certain items cause vitamin loss.

As an example, a really good friend has a child that was born with some problems. As she grew older, they wanted to vary her diet to include items other then mothers milk. The doc explained, that mothers milk was the best and anything else is LESS THEN, not more then. This concept is important. When varying a diet, you have to make sure your not offering LESS then. And if you do, at least you should be AWARE of what your doing.

As you theorized that a varied diet is MORE THEN, you were wrong with it comes to rodents and larger varanid species. In this case, so far, rodents or mice, are the mothers milk. And like mothers milk, its usable fat content that is the key. Both are RICH foods.

And like all rich foods, the individual consuming that must have a method to burn or use that rich diet. If not, that yes, mice and their high fat content will become deleterious. ITs then you can switch to a low fat diet, low energy diet for non progressive individuals. Old males and non breeding old females. Or individuals kept very poorly.(undermetabolized= only using the lower levels of their metabolism)

So yes, its all about context, that thread and most if not all of the threads where I recomend mice/rodents, amoungst other whole prey items, is based on a newbie asking what to feed, NOT Ben or crocdoc or other successful folks.

As you may have read, if those guys want to debate which prey item that WORKS, is better or works better, I will indeed play that game, but sadly, they run off and are for some reason afraid to compare successful results to other successful results. To clarify my feelings, when comparing different levels of SUCCESS, there are NO LOSERS. There are only winners. Yet those folks seem to be very insecure about how other people view them and are so very afraid to compare their wonderful successful results.

YOu see, real learning comes from comparing many levels of success. Sorry for the rant. I hope this rant enlightens you.

In short, if your new, its valuable to know some base parts of husbandry that are solid. That way, you can work on what is NOT SOLID.

After a newbie has a handle of varanid husbandry, then its fun to play and test and expand and enligthen and stimulate, etc

There is a time for all of that, after you have the basics down.

I apologise if I offended anyone, but this debate is so so silly and out of context to those people that get offended. ITs about newbies and solid information. Cheers


[ Reply To This Message ] [ Subscribe to this Thread ] [ Show Entire Thread ]

>> Next Message:  RE: For VICtort, about diet, from below - Paradon, Fri Aug 10 20:54:52 2012

<< Previous Message:  RE: For VICtort, about diet, from below - VICtort, Thu Aug 9 20:40:46 2012