Well, Greg wasn't claiming they were intergrades or pure specimens, he was simply pointing out that without precise locality data, it can often be impossible to know if certain specimens are "pure" lineage subspecies, or are from an intergrade zone where their ranges overlap. See, all SORTS of crosses of any given clutch or litter (in this case) can sometimes display phenotypic characteristics (outward visual looks) of either parent subspecies as well as intermediates between the two. Even two snakes found side by side can be very different looking because it ALL depends on the percentages of each parents genetic contribution as to what they can look like. Then there is individual variation to consider too .....even within the same bunch of offspring. It is like this with countless captive-bred snakes in the hobby today where people cross all sorts of snakes all "willy-nilly" and call the bogus offspring something very specific when they are NOT at all. You would simply not believe how often I see unidentifiable crossed garbage being bred and for sale. Too many people are involved with doing it now days, and almost anyone can breed snakes with little to no experience. Many people in this hobby know just enough to be very detrimental to it. I see this all day long, every single day of the year.

The bottom line is that many times without knowing precisely where a given snake originated (in the wild, or from captive-breedings) in conjunction with how "textbook" they key-out meristic-wise, many snakes can be impossible to distinguish down to the subspecific level with any real certainty. There can be many variables if it is not known precisely where certain snakes came from, and whether or not the animal is well within it's known "pure" range well away from any other neighboring subspecies. How well it keys-out for it's species/subspecies as described by taxonomy along with exactly were they are found are the two deciding factors with accurately identifying certain snakes. Some types can be WAY easier than others.

Here is some helpful stuff on the Natural history of North American Water Snakes.


cheers, ~Doug
Natural history of the Nerodia complex


-----
"a snake in the grass is a GOOD thing"

serpentinespecialties.webs.com

[ Reply To This Message ] [ Subscribe to this Thread ] [ Hide Replies ]