So you want to make it about me and you, thats a common approach due to lack of interest or knowledge on the subject, the subject is monitors.

I said, earthworms are Ok, they are just not practical as the monitor grows, they are like you eating five peanuts. Not many folks will feed enough to actually help(nutritionally)

Then we dicussed degrees of health with monitors, like if its a good thing, to keep them so UNHEALTHY that they cannot phyicially reproduce. Sir you completely avoided all discussion about that subject, why?.

You do understand, this forum is about monitors, and there can be lots of conversation on whether or not its right to keep monitors physically incapable of a full life. Why do you avoid that?

Where you and others go all goofy is, you think its an arguement that can be won BETWEEN YOU AND I. That is naive. Its about you and I bringing up valid points in discussion. These points, are read by others and hopefully find something of use. That use is to help with the captive care of their animals.

Right or wrong, will be reflected with the result of what we apply to our captive monitors. At this point, you are very handicapped. You are doing a great job with a couple of Savs. I have raised generation upon generation of many many species, from the smallest to the very large. So that gives me an very real advantage, but you sir, COULD have valid concerns. Those points or concerns are of value to this forum, if you carry on a real discussion. So please, do that.

The truth is, these forums are for us to have meaningful conversations about the captive care of monitors. I am suppose to question something, then you are suppose to support your opinion/view etc. Or visa versa. We then bring up supporting EXPERIENCE, written material, heresay, or rumor. Of course, actual experience trumps the rest. Its not about whos right, or wrong, its about what we bring to the discussion.

You sir, by making it about me, or the last word, makes it about YOU. Your making it personal. I made it about monitors. Every question I asked, was about monitors. Monitors are the subject of this forum. And yes, keeping and breeding and observing them both in nature and captivity, gives me a whole bag of last words. So don't expect otherwise.

You say, your interested in helping STOP the slaugther(husbandry related deaths) of thousands of Savs through poor captive care. Yet, you do not address the points I made about THE CARE OF MONITORS. More importantly, what should be considered normal.

Something so basic as what is a healthy monitor. Don't you think if people understand that if animals cannot physically reach levels of health to allow reproduction, is because of poor care, If they understood that, they may indeed do something about it. Most think keeping them poorly(under active) is normal. You do understand, thats what killed your other Sav. right?

On the otherhand, if people think its ok to keep a animal in(low metabolic rates) suspended activity its whole life and have to face all the problems of obesity and liver disease and such, they may attempt to learn what normal care is. Our conversations can bring up these points.

You treat these forums as a place to fight, when in fact, they are indeed a place to carry on discussions and help improve care. You seem to want or need to be RIGHT, when in fact, what we are discussing is applied material, so what we apply to our captives, may RESULT IN RIGHT. You and others get mad at ME, because you think I need to be right, when in fact I have been LUCKY enough to recieve a whole lot of right with my animals. That sir, is what your arguing against.

So again I ask, keep it about animals and if you do have something important to say, it really could be the last word. My bet is, all of us need to learn a whole lot more before there are last words. So in the meantime, how about words about monitors. Best wishes to you and your animals

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