Gregg, I agree with you here. As I have said, ITs not about those words. As they all can be used, its about whether they should be used.

My stance is, and I am sticking to it(hahahahaha) Hognose and other colubrids, were considered harmless before Dr.GBF came along and they have not changed.

As I mentioned on my first post, Deleterious bites can and DO occur with any and all harmless snakes.

Localizied swelling such as what Troy had, can be caused by a minor allergic reaction, or more likely by a gram-negative bacteria.

Sadly, the reality is, wild healthy snakes, rarely if ever carry gram-negative bacteria. But almost all captives do.

I also agree with Will, not on terminology, but that its likely that some yahoo lawyer or politician can grab on to words like venomous and run with it.

The reality is, there are too many underhanded ways to pass legislation, and its much harder to get it out, once its in.

Like the Texas road hunting law. It failed on its own, so they simply attached it to a popular bill and it passed.

ALso its true, I do not link to confirm anything I say. If I hadn't seen it, or have seen it and reported it, that's exactly what I am saying. If I have nothing to contributed, I will luck and read.

Published literature, does not have to be right and in many cases its simply poor. In most cases its not about how good the author is or nice or smart. The study methods for reptiles sucks period. That is changing, but has not changed yet. ALso herp biology is based on many areas that are assumptions, things arbitrarily accepted and never challenged.

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