I am not sure the "debate" is about hognose snakes. It seems to be more about the words used. Like venom, toxic, etc.



All salvia has an effect and a purpose. Saliva can and does have deleterious effects on people, whether its from a cat, hognose, gophersnake, even humans can have a very serious bite.



venom must have a serious effect to be consider venom. The word venom is associated with BAD.



en.wikipedia.org/wiki. Venom is the general term referring to any variety of toxins[1] used by certain types of animals that inject it into their victims by the means of a bite, sting or other sharp body feature.[2] Unlike poison, which is ingested or inhaled, venom.



Most of the debate was trying to separate venom and toxin. But the above Wikipedia definition, ties them together.



The old books state, rear fanged and mildly venomous or toxic. Which normally does not require medical attention.



All colubrid bites result in excess bleeding due to containing such materials as Croto toxin, which is what rattlesnakes have a lot of. Colubrids normally do not have enough to cause harm, other then excess bleeding, as mentioned.



The point is, some take the definition a bit different then others. Also some think a little swelling is serious, while others do not.



Personally I do not understand how experienced keepers cannot escape a hognose bite. Its very easy to avoid being repeadedly worked by those rear teeth. Simply put, grab the handle(rostral) pull up, while twisting the finger down.



Why some keepers want a snake to work them is beyond me. If it makes them happy, then good on them.



All in all, compared to all other reptiles, Hognose are harmless. So what the exact words are, is only for debate. As it has no importance in the real world. I would avoid a bite from a huge hognose as I would any large snake. cheers

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