return to main index

  market - home
follow us on facebook follow us on twitter link to us on LinkedIn
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research  
Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You
Locate a business by name: click to list your business
search the classifieds. buy an account
events by zip code list an event
Search the forums             Search in:
News & Events: Bringing back the Horned Lizard . . . . . . . . . .  UGA Study shows pathogens threaten snakes survival in Southern US . . . . . . . . . .  First time Sea Turtle nesting in Florida . . . . . . . . . .  New regulations on Native Species for Wisconsin Keepers . . . . . . . . . .  Heavy Metal Scorpion . . . . . . . . . .  How a python change the course of Attenbourgh's life . . . . . . . . . .  Make good choices . . . . . . . . . .  Burmese found on roadside in Wisconsin raises issues . . . . . . . . . .  Happy Earth Day . . . . . . . . . .  Kingsnake Merch Store . . . . . . . . . .  Kingsnake returns to Tinley . . . . . . . . . .  kingsnake.com joins Monitor Brains! . . . . . . . . . .  Sneak Peek . . . . . . . . . .  Amphibian gut bacteria showing promise in cancer research . . . . . . . . . .  Herp Photo of the Day . . . . . . . . . .  Herp Photo of the Day . . . . . . . . . .  Meet The Baroness - The world's longest snake . . . . . . . . . .  Herp Photo of the Day . . . . . . . . . .  Updates? . . . . . . . . . .  Herp Photo of the Day . . . . . . . . . .  The mechanics behind the viper strike . . . . . . . . . .  Snakes on a Train? . . . . . . . . . .  Tracking the animals in the Florida Everglades - Meet the Croc Docs . . . . . . . . . .  Reintroduction attempts give San Francisco Garter a second chance . . . . . . . . . .  Promoting Reptiles is Our Jam Man . . . . . . . . . .  Origins of Chytrid discovered . . . . . . . . . .  Wisdom Wednesday - The Forums - The water is warm... Come on in! . . . . . . . . . .  Kingsnake.com Past, Present and Future . . . . . . . . . .  IHS Celebrates 50 years . . . . . . . . . .  End of January 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  CRE - Jun. 20-21, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Colorado Herp Society Meeting - June 20, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Chicago Herpetological Society Meeting - June 21, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Bay Area Herpetological Society Meeting - June 26, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Tinley NARBC June - Jun 27-28 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  DFW Herp Society Meeting - June 27, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Greater Cincinnati Herp Society Meeting - July 01, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Reptile Super Show & LA Pet Fair - July 11-12 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  PACNWRS - Jul. 11-12, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Colorado Herp Society Meeting - July 18, 2026 . . . . . . . . . . 
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research
full banner - advertise here .50¢/1000 views
Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You
pool banner - $50 year

RE: Hyla ('Pseudacris') regilla - a potential can of taxonomic worms

[ Login ] [ User Prefs ] [ Search Forums ] [ Back to Main Page ] [ Back to Taxonomy Discussion ] [ Reply To This Message ]
[ Register to Post ]

Posted by: CKing at Sat Apr 10 17:31:18 2004  [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by CKing ]  
   

Patrick Alexander wrote:

"he appears to be a troll with a lot of time on his hands and a

strong dislike of molecular phylogenetics and modern herpetology."



Me:

Patrick's claim that I am a "troll" and that I dislike molecular phylogenetics and modern herpetology is so ridiculous that it is actually hilarious. Some of Patrick's responses to my posts in this forum were deleted by the moderator probably because they violated the policy of this forum, since these posts contained asinine remarks and obscenities but no facts or reasoned arguments. He certainly has a lot of chutzpah.



As for the claim that I dislike molecular systematics, that is simply Patrick making yet another unsupported statement. I have not confined my criticism to molecular studies. I have criticized the morphological studies of Kluge and that of Frost and Etheridge, among others. In fact, I used the molecular data from Lopez and Maxson (1995) to show that Old World and New World Elaphe form a monophyletic group and I used the immunological data of Dowling et al. to show that Lampropeltis calligaster is a close relative of Lampropeltis mexicana. In this thread, I have cited Maxson and Wilson's immunological data, which is molecular evidence, to show that it is not a good idea to put Hyla regilla in Pseudacris. I am far from an opponent of "molecular phylogenetics."



Finally, as for the claim that I dislike "modern herpetology." There is indeed a kernel of truth in that statement. Many "modern" herpetologists have straightjacketed themselves with cladistic dogma. As a result, many "modern" systematists are on a rampage to destroy paraphyletic reptilian and amphibian taxa, since cladists (or Hennigians) find such taxa ideologically unacceptable. The cladists' ideological intolerance of paraphyletic taxa and their embrace of such invalid species concepts as the evolutionary species concept and phylogenetic species concept have resulted in a large number of unnecessary taxonomic changes/proposals. The recent transfer of Hyla crucifer, Hyla regilla and Hyla cadaverina to the genus Pseudacris is a very good example. Hedges, who was adhering to cladistic dogma, made the transfer, even though subsequent studies showed that his tree was incorrect and therefore his taxonomic proposal was unnecessary even according to cladistic dogma. If he wasn't adhering to cladistic dogma, his taxonomic proposal would have been unnecessary, saving us all from the taxonomic chaos his proposal has generated. "Modern herpetology" has therefore taken a turn for the worse because of the popularity of cladistic ideology amongst some of its practitioners. Fortunately, there are still many herpetologists who have not succumbed to cladistic dogma. Hence the future of the discipline of herpetology is not entirely hopeless.



Equally fortunately, perhaps, is the fact that Patrick is primarily interested in plants, not reptiles and amphibians. Herpetology's "loss" will be botany's "gain."


   

[ Reply To This Message ] [ Subscribe to this Thread ] [ Show Entire Thread ]


<< Previous Message:  RE: Hyla ('Pseudacris') regilla - a potential can of taxonomic worms - paalexan, Fri Apr 9 22:04:52 2004

Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You Click here to visit Classifieds Click here to visit Classifieds
KINGSNAKE.COM

Enjoy all our content free of charge with a user account that gives you full access to every feature. For added visibility, paid options are available - post in our Classifieds, showcase your business with Banner Ads or a Directory listing, promote reptile events, and more.

Quick Links
Community
Legal & Safety
Support

Register for free ✓ Sign up!

Kingsnake.com ® is a registered trademark © 1997-