return to main index

  mobile - desktop
follow us on facebook follow us on twitter follow us on YouTube link to us on LinkedIn
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research  
Click here for LLL Reptile & Supply
Mice, Rats, Rabbits, Chicks, Quail
Available Now at RodentPro.com!
Locate a business by name: click to list your business
search the classifieds. buy an account
events by zip code list an event
Search the forums             Search in:
News & Events: Herp Photo of the Day: Indigo . . . . . . . . . .  Herp Photo of the Day: Gopher Snake . . . . . . . . . .  Suncoast Herp Society Meeting - Apr 20, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  DFW Herp Society Meeting - Apr 20, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  Colorado Herp Society Meeting - Apr 20, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  Chicago Herpetological Society Meeting - Apr 21, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  Bay Area Herpetological Society Meeting - Apr 26, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  Calusa Herp Society Meeting - May 02, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  Southwestern Herp Society Meeting - May 04, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  Exotic Pets Expo - Manasas - May 05, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  Greater Cincinnati Herp Society Meeting - May 07, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  St. Louis Herpetological Society - May 12, 2024 . . . . . . . . . . 
Join USARK - Fight for your rights!
full banner - advertise here .50¢/1000 views
click here for Rodent Pro
pool banner - $50 year

RE: Sure, it probably isn't the final word....

[ Login ] [ User Prefs ] [ Search Forums ] [ Back to Main Page ] [ Back to Taxonomy Discussion ] [ Reply To This Message ]
[ Register to Post ]

Posted by: CKing at Thu Apr 8 22:02:28 2004  [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by CKing ]  
   

"No, the fact that Pseudacris (including crucifer and regilla) form their own exclusive branch in all analyses (including Maxson and Wilson's), something that you acknowledge above, means that they share a more recent common ancestor exclusive of the one uniting all Hyla."

You would be correct if new species evolve at regular and short intervals. It is true that the node from which Hyla regilla, Hyla crucifer and Pseudacris branch off does not coincide exactly with the node from which Hyla arborea and Hyla eximia/chrysoscelis branched off. The immunological distance between those two nodes, however, is short. In 1974, Maxson and Wilson thought that Hyla eximia is only convergently similar to Hyla regilla morphologically because these two are separated by a surprising amount of immunological distance. In 1975 they probably rethought their hypothesis after they found that these two also shared a common ancestor with Hyla arborea, which is also similar morphologically to Hyla regilla and Hyla eximia. Hyla regilla, Hyla arborea and Hyla eximia are almost certainly morphologically conservative species that resemble each other because they have changed little and because they resemble their common ancestor. That common ancestor, which is also the ancestor of all holarctic hylids is most likely Hyla eximia, given its morphology and biogeography. Evolutionary stasis, which is probable in a morphologically conservative lineage, may have kept Hyla eximia unchanged even though numerous species have budded off of it. The species from which all holarctic hylids evolved is probably the same species as the one from which Hyla regilla, Hyla crucifer and Pseudacris evolved.

"Look at taxon sampling in Moriarty and Canatella relative to Maxson and Wilson. That is the reason you "H. crucifer" is sister to Pseudacris, not nested within."

I disagree. It is instead the choice of outgroup species which accounts for the anomalies one sees in Moriarty and Canatella's ML and MP trees. Both trees surprisingly show H. chrysoscelis more basal to Hyla eximia. As I pointed out above, Hyla eximia is most likely the ancestor of all holarctic hylids (judging from biogeography and morphology) and it is also morphologically conservative (as I explained above). If Hyla chrysoscelis is more basal, that means Hyl eximia probably evolved from a Hyla chrysoscelis morphotype. But since there are several species that are morphologically similar to Hyla eximia in Mexico (namely members of the Hyla eximia group as defined by Duellman), Moriarty and Cannatella's tree would require these species (which are morphologically close to Hyla eximia) to have evolved convergently to resemble Hyla eximia, or it would require Hyla chrysoscelis to have evolved from an ancestor that looked like Hyla eximia, and then Hyla eximia would evolve by undergoing a reversal from a H. chrysoscelis-like ancestor. In other words, in order to embrace Moriarty and Cannatella's tree topology, one has to invoke multiple unparsimonious scenarios, not only in the evolution of toe pads but also in the evolution of the Hyla eximia morphotype. Personally I would not invoke such a large number of ad hoc hypotheses in order to embrace Moriarty and Cannatella's phylogeny, nor would I embrace their classification since it is both heterogeneous and probably unstable due to the possibility that the inclusion of Hyla arborea in their "Pseudacris" is unavoidable.


   

[ Reply To This Message ] [ Subscribe to this Thread ] [ Show Entire Thread ]


>> Next Message:  RE: Sure, it probably isn't the final word.... - CKing, Sun Apr 11 14:04:38 2004

<< Previous Message:  RE: Sure, it probably isn't the final word.... - dhl, Thu Apr 8 00:54:36 2004