return to main index

  mobile - desktop
follow us on facebook follow us on twitter follow us on YouTube link to us on LinkedIn
Zoo Med Aspen Snake Bedding  
click here for  Animal Specialties
This Space Available
3 months for $50.00
Locate a business by name: click to list your business
search the classifieds. buy an account
events by zip code list an event
Search the forums             Search in:
News & Events: Herp Photo of the Day: Newt . . . . . . . . . .  Herp Photo of the Day: Happy Rattlesnake Friday! . . . . . . . . . .  All Maryland Reptile Show - Feb. 06, 2021 . . . . . . . . . .  York County Reptile Show - Feb. 07, 2021 . . . . . . . . . .  Northern Virginia Reptile Show - Feb. 13, 2021 . . . . . . . . . .  East Coast Reptile Super Expo - Feb. 13, 2021 . . . . . . . . . .  Hampton Roads Exotic Pet Expo - Feb. 20-21, 2021 . . . . . . . . . .  Reptiles At The York Expo Center - June 26, 2021 . . . . . . . . . .  Western Maryland Reptile Show - Mar. 06, 2021 . . . . . . . . . .  All Maryland Reptile Show - Mar. 13, 2021 . . . . . . . . . .  Richmond Reptile Expo - Mar. 20, 2021 . . . . . . . . . .  Battlefield Reptile Expo - Mar. 20 2021 . . . . . . . . . . - feeders for less!
full banner - advertise here .50¢/1000 views
click here for the next Repticon!
pool banner - $50 year

Basal Elapids and Viperids Must Be Found Amongst the Rear Fanged and Aglyphous Venomous Snakes

[ Login ] [ User Prefs ] [ Search Forums ] [ Back to Main Page ] [ Back to Taxonomy Discussion ] [ Reply To This Message ]
[ Register to Post ]

Posted by: CoralSnake at Tue Jun 7 23:56:10 2005  [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by CoralSnake ]  

One thing that suprises me about Evolutionists is that most of them even the Cladists stick to fixed "Creationist" ideas about Taxonomy. As a forinstance an Elapid must be a snake with short relatively immobile front fangs (the "protoroglyphous" condition). A viperid must be a snake with long front fangs on a swinging maxilary bone (the "solenoglyphous" condition).

However evolutionarily speaking these merely represent the current end condition of the evolutionary process and not its beginning. Therefore I dont think we should be looking for basal elapids and vipers amongst snakes that have already reached the classic viper and elapid conditions. Rather the place to find basal vipers and elapids or transitional forms if you will is amongst the vast assemblage of Rear Fanged snakes and venom glanded aglyphis "colubrids".

Because the earliest advanced vipers like the Fea's viper and African night adders have all of the head shields and other features of a "colubrid" it will be rather hard to find the basal vipers amongst the rear fanged snakes by any other means than streight DNA testing. However it will probably be easier to find the basal elapids because advanced elapids have other visible features bsides fangs and venom that tell them apart from "colubrids" that would probably carry "backwards" to the rear fanged or aglyphous basal forms. Probably the most prominant one of these is the lack of the loreal scale between the preocular and inner nasal scales at the sides of the head. Another common elapid tendency that has nothing to do with fangs or venom is to have both undivided and devided subcaudal (bottom of the tail) scales although this is less common than the lack of the loreal head scale. Therefore we would know to find the basal elapids amongst rear fanged or even aglyphous "colubrids" with venom glands but no loreal scale.

From this point we can probably check the venoms of these snakes
for elapid nurotoxins. (Many of the suspected basal elapids in the current "colubrid roster" using a true evolutionary standard (the rear fanged or aglyphous venomous snakes as the base) like American crowned, earth and black headed snakes and African centepede eaters tackle highly venomous albeit invertibrate game themselves like the afore mentioned centepedes as well as scorpions and may well have developed the elapid nurotoxins to in effect be able to "shoot first" against highly venomous for a small snake invertabrate prey.)

If elapid nurotoxins are found in rear fanged and aglyphous venomous snakes lacking loreal scales like American Crowned, Earth and Black headed snakes and African Centepede eaters a DNA test can finally be used to cinch the fact that we have found the true basal elapids and first bone fide evolutionary transitional forms in nature.

In otherwords to find the basal or so called "transitional" form
for a type of animal we should not be looking to its classic advanced condition no matter how primitive we go within it. In otherwords if the African Homoroselaps is an elapid it is not the true basal form but only the beginnings of the classic elapid evolutionary condition. Rather we have to look to the least advanced form possible and for vipers and elapids that is to be found somewhare amongst the aglyphous snakes with venom glands and the rear fanged snakes.


[ Reply To This Message ] [ Subscribe to this Thread ] [ Show Entire Thread ]

>> Next Message:  RE: Basal Elapids and Viperids Must Be Found Amongst the Rear Fanged and Ag - WW, Wed Jun 8 04:13:19 2005
>> Next Message:  RE: Basal Elapids and Viperids Must Be Found Amongst the Rear Fanged and Aglyphous Venomous Snakes - BGF, Wed Jun 8 23:42:57 2005
>> Next Message:  RE: Basal Elapids and Viperids Must Be F - CKing, Sun Apr 9 22:51:36 2006