Posted by:
DonSoderberg
at Mon Mar 6 18:11:57 2006 [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by DonSoderberg ]
I'd love to see your evidence that pied sided bloods are not pure corns. I'm inclined to tell you the story of my line.
In the late 1990s, I got a bloodred female from a friend of mine in Colorado. He didn't advertise it as anything special and in recent discussions with him, he said he bought it as a pure bloodred. Except for three little patches of white on the sides that were connected to the belly, the matriarch of this line is anatomically pure corn. Adjunct ventral-lateral white is not uncommon in bloodreds so I never thought I had a promotable trait in this female. I have been selling her babies for over eight years now. I always bred her to pure bloodreds and the babies were never anything special.
Walter Smith called one day a few years ago and asked if I had any adult female bloods with white on them. This one came to mind and I sent here to him on breeding loan. He had a male that had 10 times as much white on it as mine did. He got that male from Brad McDonald.
At the end of that breeding season, he sent me my share of the babies along with the mother. Only one or two of the babies had a few scales of white on them and were nothing remarkable. I kept 3.2 of them.
Last year, I bred one of the males to two of his sisters and to its mother. I got pied sided bloods in all clutches. As many of you know, they have much more white than any of the ancestors. Brad McDonald does produce quite a few of the bloods with more white on them than mine have, but I'm unaware of the lineage of those.
So, my questions are these:
1. Because they don't look like any corn you've seen before, they must be hybrids?
2. Does that also hold true for pie bald ball pythons? They must be hybrids too, huh?
Finally, I'd love for someone to show us emails that prove these are not pure corns. Not because I'm worried about the outcome. Things are what they are. If someone has indisputable proof that the guy I got mine from or the ones Brad McDonald produces are not pure corns, I'd like to see it. I will happily reveal all the facts publically if it turns out there's been a rat snake climbing the family tree.
I have lots of doubts about mainstream corns out there being pure corns. Everyone knows I produce creamsicles and I've even bred jungle corns, but I have always advertised them as exactly what they are. How many generations of back breeding would it take to have eliminated all the hybrid markers of the pied sided bloodred if indeed it was a hybrid? I estimate five to 10 generations before they started looking like corns again. And what other snake out there is lending the random, partial white look (piebaldism) to this line? If this had rattles on the tail, I'd be hard-pressed to say it wasn't a hybrid. If they had a turned up noses, I'd feed them toads. If they had bright red/black/white triads, I couldn't say a milk was in the recipe.
I have farmed out some of the babies to three American snake breeders and I have sold some to two other breeders out there. None have indicated there were any obvious hybrid markers on them and I think the two customers that paid me $2,000.00 each for theirs would have been the first ones to squawk if they saw any markers for rat snake or king snake in these babies. Again, I know of no other snake species out there that contributes a pie bald trait. The only one out there I can think of that looks remotely like these is the pie bald Persian rats. I've never owned one, but it would probably take about 10 generations to produce corns from those that weren't 30 inches long at maturity.
I guess this was my round-about way of asking if someone has credible evidence that the pied sided bloods are not pure corns, I'm all ears (eyes). Heaven knows none of the bloodreds genetically behave like corns. Their latent color metamorphisis is classically CORN, but that pattern change thing is not very corny. I guess if that were the foundation for the rumors that bloods are not pure corns, we've had to say the same thing about motlies and striped corns too. Melanin reduction is often accompanied by pattern change in stripers and sometimes motlies. IF bloodred are pure corns, then the pied sideds are too. I think I have a sharp eye for hybrid markers in corns and I've never seen a single one in my lines.
Please, furnish the forum readers with any proof of the claims that pied sided bloods are not pure corns. I can think of at least five other "corns" that carry strong hybrid markers and have never been proven to be anything else. Heck, with all the variations in corns, once DNA testing becomes affordable, we're probably all in for some shocking lessons.
Don
www.cornsnake.NET
South Mountain Reptiles
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"hybrids"? . . . dial-up warning! - DonSoderberg, Mon Mar 6 18:11:57 2006