After reading all of this I think chris is on the right track but not completely. These genes are showing a very high similarity to the lesser/mojave/lemon/butter complex in ball pythons. All of these animals are different looking (phenotypically) however when bred to each other they all produce a white snake. Some have concluded this white snake is not a lucy but a trait caused by a null gene that eliminates the pigmenting process. However, when one of these white snakes is bred to a normal, you get an almost equal ratio of the 2 morphs used to create the lucy. For instance one lucy x normal breeding produced 3 lessers and 5 mojaves. No lucy x normal breeding has produced a normal baby which goes toward the theory they are different mutations of the same allele. It is impossible for the lucy parent to pass on a normal copy of the allele to any offspring since it doesn't have one itself.

This could be the same thing going on with these mutations but on a simple recessive level. If they were 2 seperate mutations of different alleles it would be impossible for a breeding of the 2 to produce a homozygous animal of either trait. To prove or disprove this theory one would have to take the offspring of the crossed litters and pair them up. Theoretically they would be CCSs (homozygous carmel het sharp_ and SSCs (sharp albino het caramel). If an integrade was produced of the two genes that was visably differnt that animal would need to be raised up and bred to a het of each gene. In this theory if any normals are created which they should if it was 2 seperate alleles involved then this theory is nullified. If all homozygous appearing animals are produced which could only happen if both of the double homozygous genes interacted with the het gene of the other animal being bred. This process would be a very drawn out process but beyond genetic testing could be the only way to completely figure this out. Wow it's much more simple when dealing with co-dom traits, lol.
-----
Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of female holdbacks and several rescue normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns


a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

[ Hide Replies ]

• Paradigm genetics...thoughts on theory? - ChrisGilbert, Fri Sep 22 16:41:22 2006
• Well Chris - giantkeeper, Fri Sep 22 16:47:23 2006
• More, for everyone - giantkeeper, Fri Sep 22 16:49:53 2006
• ^ EVERYONE SHOULD READ ABOVE ^ n/p - ChrisGilbert, Fri Sep 22 17:02:27 2006
• The breeding that had Normals... - ChrisGilbert, Fri Sep 22 17:01:40 2006
• I don't know Chris - giantkeeper, Fri Sep 22 17:04:01 2006
• I don't know either... - ChrisGilbert, Fri Sep 22 17:07:11 2006
• It is VERY plausible, more.... - rainbowsrus, Fri Sep 22 18:10:52 2006
• That would be the next test... - ChrisGilbert, Fri Sep 22 18:14:11 2006
• RE: That would be the next test... - Paul Hollander, Fri Sep 22 18:55:49 2006
• Very true if this is the case........... - vcaruso15, Fri Sep 22 19:07:42 2006
• Not only would it be a 1/16... - ChrisGilbert, Fri Sep 22 19:39:50 2006
• Actually, higher odds of proving.... - rainbowsrus, Fri Sep 22 19:49:32 2006
• RE: Actually, higher odds of proving.... - vcaruso15, Fri Sep 22 20:20:00 2006
• look here............... - vcaruso15, Fri Sep 22 20:25:57 2006
• Exactly.... - rainbowsrus, Fri Sep 22 21:16:54 2006
• I agree. - vcaruso15, Fri Sep 22 21:22:31 2006
• RE: Actually, higher odds of proving.... - ChrisGilbert, Sat Sep 23 14:07:13 2006
• RE: Paradigm genetics...thoughts on theory? - vcaruso15, Fri Sep 22 17:43:40 2006
• The flower analogy... - ChrisGilbert, Fri Sep 22 18:01:57 2006
• From reading... - Psycodelic, Fri Sep 22 17:44:22 2006
• The Caramel... - ChrisGilbert, Fri Sep 22 17:57:37 2006
• RE: The Caramel... - styrsnake, Fri Sep 22 18:40:26 2006
• I feel the same way... - ChrisGilbert, Fri Sep 22 19:35:19 2006
• RE: From reading... - Paul Hollander, Fri Sep 22 18:24:31 2006
• YUP! - ChrisGilbert, Fri Sep 22 18:30:28 2006
• wonderful world of multiple alleles - Paul Hollander, Fri Sep 22 18:05:51 2006
• Paul, thanks, and more... - ChrisGilbert, Fri Sep 22 18:11:33 2006
• Chris, paul has it right....duh ; - )... - rainbowsrus, Fri Sep 22 18:19:45 2006
• or even better - rainbowsrus, Fri Sep 22 18:21:11 2006
• I'm saying... - ChrisGilbert, Fri Sep 22 18:26:06 2006
• RE: I'm saying... - rainbowsrus, Fri Sep 22 18:30:12 2006
• That's what I am getting at... - ChrisGilbert, Fri Sep 22 18:32:53 2006
• RE: I'm saying... - Paul Hollander, Fri Sep 22 18:45:15 2006
• Must exit. Good discussion. n/p - Paul Hollander, Fri Sep 22 18:57:38 2006
• Sorry you had to go... - ChrisGilbert, Fri Sep 22 19:37:49 2006
• Well, I'm no Paul but...... - rainbowsrus, Fri Sep 22 19:57:49 2006
• I could very likely be wrong... - ChrisGilbert, Sat Sep 23 14:03:54 2006
• gonna disagree and agree... read........ - joshhutto, Sat Sep 23 01:07:34 2006
• I was thinking about... - ChrisGilbert, Sat Sep 23 14:45:51 2006