return to main index

  mobile - desktop
follow us on facebook follow us on twitter follow us on YouTube link to us on LinkedIn
 
click here for Rodent Pro
Mice, Rats, Rabbits, Chicks, Quail
Available Now at RodentPro.com!
Locate a business by name: click to list your business
search the classifieds. buy an account
events by zip code list an event
Search the forums             Search in:
News & Events: Herp Photo of the Day: Frilled Lizard . . . . . . . . . .  Herp Photo of the Day: Lizard . . . . . . . . . .  Chicago Herpetological Society Meeting - Dec 15, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  San Diego Herp Society Meeting - Dec 17, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  Colorado Herp Society Meeting - Dec 21, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  Bay Area Herpetological Society Meeting - Dec 27, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  Suncoast Herp Society Meeting - Dec 28, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  DFW Herp Society Meeting - Dec 28, 2024 . . . . . . . . . .  Greater Cincinnati Herp Society Meeting - Jan 01, 2025 . . . . . . . . . .  Calusa Herp Society Meeting - Jan 02, 2025 . . . . . . . . . .  Southwestern Herp Society Meeting - Jan 04, 2025 . . . . . . . . . .  St. Louis Herpetological Society - Jan 12, 2025 . . . . . . . . . . 

RE: ?'s about getting a dragon

[ Login ] [ User Prefs ] [ Search Forums ] [ Back to Main Page ] [ Back to Bearded Dragons ]

Posted by: PHLdyPayne at Mon Jul 2 15:34:37 2007   [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by PHLdyPayne ]  
   

I agree with BDLvr about buying the dragon from a breeder instead of a pet store. Most pet stores do not know much or anything about the proper care of dragons.

That 20gal kit for $150 is a waste of money even though I don't know what it comes with. The ones I have seen in stores contain about 50% crap or more. YOu can buy a 20gal tank for $10 used or less. It doesn't have to be able to hold water, just your dragon. Kits like this that i have seen contain a heat rock (horrible for lizards and snakes alike, though newer types are a bit better in the fact they have a built in thermostate to help regulate how hot they get. But dragons are made to gauge heat from above, not below, so often they will burn themselves trying to warm up. So heat rocks (or hot rocks) are a no no for bearded dragons.

Stick on dial type thermometers. Not accurate, only measure air temp. not basking temperature. A digital thermometer with probe, under $10 in most department and home hardware type stores, much better. You can place the probe directly on the basking spot and get a much more accurate reading. Temperature guns are the best to get, but are a bit more costly (not hugely though). Point and shot and you get surface temp very quickly.

Any and all calcium based sands. These are almost always in the kits. Total waste of money. The calcium in these sands is far to coarse to be digested, it clumps up and has a high risk of causing impaction. Crushed walnut is worse.

Some kits even have under tank heaters. Again, useless for bearded dragons. Great for snakes, but for lizards, except maybe the burrowing kind, totally useless.

Things to get:

35-40 gal long tank or breeder. This will be do your dragon till they are about 14-15" long head to tail tip (roughly till dragon is 6-8 months old). After this, you will need to move your dragon into the adult size cage which has at least 2'x4' floor space. It may be even more feasible to buy the full adult cage first, use some cardboard to divide it in half...and increase available size as your dragon grows. Or go with one small and one big cage, and buy something else later for the smaller cage (leopard geckos perhaps, corn snake, etc.. whatever can fit comfortably in a 35-40 gal tank as an adult).

Hooded light fixture. Zoo med makes these, or Exo Terre...very expensive though. Hardware store sells them for much cheaper, do the same job. Just make sure it is rated for more than the wattage of bulb you plan to use. Though you can put a higher watt bulb into them, it greatly increases chances of fire, so not recommended. Insurance may not even cover you if they find out a fire was caused by a fixture with too high a bulb in it. For bulbs higher than 75W, I definitely recommend getting ceramic or similar fixture. These tolerate heat much better than plastic. Plastic fixtures, even rated for 120 watts or more, will melt. I have had this happen before.

Florescent tube style fixtures. You can buy a hooded fixture at most reptile and fish supply stores, or you can buy a double florescent tube fixture (workshop style with cord) for cheap at a hardware store. Place one UVB producing tube (exo-terre or zoo med brands are typically the best, called repti-glo and repti-sun). 5.0, 8.0 or 10.0 rated is best. An alternate is using mercury vapor bulbs especially designed for reptiles and produce uvb at higher rates than the florescent tubes. But there are some special considerations with these bulbs. They have to be mounted completely vertical, without any tilt, else this burns out the bulb quickly. They have to be at least 18" above your dragon's basking spot, or they can cause eye irritation. They do produce heat as well but sometimes they are too far away to raise the basking spot high enough temp wise so secondary heating may be required. I wouldn't use these bulbs for baby dragons, save them for adults, mostly because the cage size makes it more difficult to set them up properly for younger dragons.

Basking spots. Make sure these are wide, too many people use too narrow basking spots..it looks like their dragons are hanging onto them for dear life...which isn't comfortable for your dragons. These should be wide and sturdy, at least wide enough as the maximum width of a dragon's body when laying down flat. For adults, this can be 6" wide or more. Basking area in a baby tank of course, doesn't meed to be 6" wide, but the adult cage should have wide basking spots.

You can use wood, bricks, tiles, rocks, heat resistant plastics, etc. Really only limitation is it should not be easy to burn or absorb wastes. Wood of course, can absorb wastes so should be sealed if possible. Or deeply cleaned every few months or more, if often soiled by your dragon.

Store bought wood can be used as is, if it is being sold as safe for aquariums or reptiles. Some may need to be mounted on a base, to ensure it doesn't roll over or tip. Mounting on a base will make it easier to raise it at an angle etc to better position it under a basking area. Large pieces of driftwood that have been cleaned and disinfected, make great basking spots. Other 'wild collected' wood should be free of mold *ie dry pieces, not moldy and soft) and baked in an oven for 2-3 hours at 200-250F to kill any critters and germs. Or you can soak it in a bleach solution (10% bleach) for 20-30 minutes and throughoutly rinsed in cold clean water,l then rinsed again and even more, till no scent of bleach can be detected. Let air dry in a well ventilated area till dried completely (outside under direct sunlight works great).

Substrates: for babies, best substrate to use would be plain paper towel or newsprint. Not fancy but easy to clean and disinfect and cheap to get. Other substrates can be non stick shelf liner, reptile carpet (have two pieces cut to fit the tank, so while you are cleaning one, you can put the other into the cage), tiles or plastic table cloth (the kind you see on banquet tables at weddings etc). For dragons over 10" washed children's play sand can be used instead of the others. Or you can stick with non particulate substrates.

As mentioned before, don't use calcium based sands, crushed walnut, any wood based substrates, corn cob, or grain based (millet, rabbet pellets, hay, wheat bran). Most of these are all high impaction risks if ingested (and since dragons taste their environment with their tongue, they are bound to get some into their mouths). The grain based, pellets and hay, mold when wet, swell when ingested and often come with grain mites or moths...which fly around the house making a pest of themselves.

BDLvr covered most of the other basic considerations so I won't repeat any more here.

The best thing to do is research everywhere, not just here in the forum. Check care sheets on other websites (google will lead you to many), not the inconsistences, as there is no one single perfect way to keep bearded dragons, variations can and do work. I suggest no particulate substrates for dragons, as this eliminates the risk of impaction. Washed children's play sand has a much lesser risk than other substrates, but still, it has its risk. Also, it can harbor smells and bacteria...as waste material sinks through and though most can be collected with a scoop, some still falls through and is mixed into the rest of the sand.

Get the Bearded Dragon Manual by Philippe de Vosjoli, 'Your Bearded Dragon's Life' by Liz Palika and any other dragon books you can get your hands on. They are great sources of information to have on hand.

Check the Events Callander on this site to see if there are any reptile shows in your area. A reptile show is a great place to buy a bearded dragon. You can talk with the breeders directly, see a wide assortment of bearded dragons (these are popular enough to be at any show) and get their number and business cards so you can call them if there are any further questions or problems. Any good breeder is very happy to help their customers. If they seem reluctant to talk and answer questions at the show, even if busy, good ideal to look for another breeder. Don't be afraid to question something if it doesn't seem right to you, breeders are very happy to answer questions and all breeders I have met at shows have been friendly and quite willing to 'talk shop' all day long. The true breeder is one who loves their animals and cares about them and how they will be treated in their new homes.

Learn how to detect a healthy dragon from a sickly one.

A healthy dragon is alert, sitting with head raised and eyes wide open (though babies may sleep alot, as they are babies, but if disturbed, they should instantly be alert and responsive) and if actively checking something out, their tail is curved upwards.

There shouldn't be any loose wrinkly skin, dirt around eyes or nose (or any sort of bubbling discharge), the vent area should be clean and clear, with no swelling or caked on feces). Watch for any moving black specks on your dragon, these can be mites or ticks. Toes should be all present as well as the tail tip. Missing toes or tail usually were nipped off by cage mates mistaking them for food. Though not a health concern, as long as the wounds are nicely healed up and show no signs of infection or going black, they do detract somewhat from the appearance of your dragon. However, if the dragon you like is otherwise perfect, but for a nipped toe or tail tip, buy him by all means. Breeder probably give you a discount.

Well, I didn't intend to write a book...but hopefully you found useful information in my long babble. I have included two of my bearded dragon setups from way back. The first is when my dragon was a baby not long after I bought her. Here she is about 8" long, in a 35 gal long tank. I mounted his basking spot on a wide board with a section of clothes hanger wire to give it the tilt. Basically just drilled a hole slightly smaller than the wire and glued with 2 part epoxy.




The adult cage is 5'x2'x2' in size. The final picture is the same cage but with all the cage furniture and dragon in. She is about 18" in that picture. She was my first dragon, don't have her anymore though. I wish I could find another piece of driftwood like that one, it was great as a basking spot. Gave her a great range of temps, from 120F at the tip down to 95F along the sides and far end of the driftwood. She loved the highest temp first thing in the morning and after she ate, later she moved to the lower ranges, when she wasn't stomping all over the cage.





-----
PHLdyPayne


   

[ Show Entire Thread ]


>> Next Message:  RE: ?'s about getting a dragon - shannon20019, Tue Jul 3 10:06:07 2007

<< Previous Message:  RE: ?'s about getting a dragon - BDlvr, Mon Jul 2 10:44:50 2007