There is always more to it. Once the discussion left Daniels Storrs, and it did that right off. You see, Daniel not only dusted his crickets, but also gutloaded them. So it makes this need to dust or not, sorta silly. People keep going back to the storrs has having a bit low blood serum level for calicum. Then saying oh man, you need to dust insects. Concentrate folks, concentrate. He was doing that in spades.



So the need to dust is not even appropriate in this discussion, as that animal had dusted crickets. Thus this discussion was no longer about Daniels storrs. I bet Daniels never ever going to post again. hahahahahaha Daniel, its not about you, you appear to be doing great. No worries, its about them, not you.



Then I mentioned that I commonly raised many species of odatria, on only crickets that were not dusted with anything or gutloaded. And on pinkies/fuzzies, and both, and more and less. As in, TESTED MANY APPROACHES. Because those others did not do this, they convienently throw it out of their minds.



I then mentioned I only started dusting when I encountered a problem with tristis(first) because I produced so many babies, I was raising the in lots of several dozen per cage. That problem was cured with a vitamin/mineral suppliment. So a clear mind would understand you must have some success if you first encountered problems because of an overabundance of babies produced. Since most here cannot even produce one or two and they do dust. Rude, yes, I know that, but its to understand the issue. They really cannot understand what i said. As they cannot understand bins of dozens.



So I started dusting, Now a lesson in history, at that time, there were nearly no successful breeders in the states, or in the world for that matter, that produced numbers. There were several in Europe that reliably produced low numbers. At that time, they did not use this type of suppliments. It appears I am the one who popularized it for monitors.



Back to the problem animal. We do not know what occurred as the keeper has not reported to us on more results from the lab or any further condition of the animal. (hiding I bet)Yet the discussion rages. Funny if you ask me.



In our discussion, I merely question the OVER USE, not the use of suppliments. Which is clearly questioned in all living animals, including us. The original keeper, gutloaded(which i consider stupid) and dusted with quality suppliments. If anything, it could only be an overdose. OR, not about the dusting. Simple problem solving, it(this) works with and without something, it ain't the something. Instead, its most likely something else.



So the debate runs on. Only as usual the debate does not know what its debating.



I still practice a non varied diet and I still have the most successes and the least problems.(stating point of view) I am guessing on the most successes, at least amoung the most. But because I do not have any calicum problems, I have to be amoung the least. As in ZERO. And considering I am talking about numbers.



When I third party myself, you look at this from the sideview. Its very interesting and humorous.



The reality is, on our forum, its a preschooler, having a heated discussion with a sophmore in college. Which does happen, but the chances a first grader having the experience to carry on a decent discussion is slim. OK impossible. Not because the first grader is not smart. Simply because the first grader lacks experience. In this case, the first grader has not hatched a monitor yet(or few) Which indicates a lack of experience in raising monitors. Where my analogy falls flat is, in real life we all know a first grader has no concept of what life will teach him between first grade and college. In reality of this debate, my discussion partner is an adult. And should be able to understand that having three laying females that just started laying has nothing in common with the experience of having hundreds of laying females over a great lenght of time.



I have to think, that when folks grab these ideas and cling to them so tightly, its in a desperate attempt of hope. They so hope they are right, but do not know, because of lack of experience. They really want their animals to do well, and hope this something is the key.(to many keys)



So yes, the discussion is silly, but it does point out, there is a current desperate need to understand captive husbandry. There are now different levels of husbandry and their associated problems. Poor husbandry(PH) expresses its many problems, Basic husbandry(BH) expresses its unique set of problems, as advanced husbandry exhibits its own unique set of problems. Its the naive that confuses that. The reason they confuse it, easy, because they have no idea which is which and what it does. Hence they are naive. You do understand, its really not all that complicated. Which is one main point, why complicate something easy.



And as i mentioned, Its far less complicated then understanding the mechanics of calicum use and ca/ph ratios. Let vets do that, thats their job. You job is to keep the monitors healthy. You should concentrate on that. You do not need to know all there is to know.(that tends to get in the way of simple things)



Now for the punchline. I believe the reason smart folks dwell on those things is because they have the ability to seek out and obtain that information and memorize it to a tee. But as smart as they are, they cannot speed up the learning or experience level gained from the actual animals. As fast as monitors are(compared to other reptiles), they are slow compared to reading a book or investigating all manner of papers. This has been true for a long time. Unfortunately the truth and real information lays with the animals.



This is where i came in actually, when I started with monitors, I did not screw around, I build a facility that produced results. I sped up the information process. The facility either produced tons of information or it would stop completely. All have failed to understand that.



By comparison, I had nearly a hundred successful breeding colonies of odatria, at one time. At about that same time, I visited a well known european breeder, he did very well, but he had maybe ten, twelve females. I ask, which one produces the most information? In all reality, I can be ten times dumber, heck, I would still experience more and learn more then that super smart European breeder. In a real analogy, he was reading a page a day, I was reading 100 pages a day. IF he had five times better retention, I would still be learning twenty times more. We will not go into the exponent factor. U know, each day that those numbers stay the same, you know I am five times less smart, the gap of information between us widens at an incredible rate. Of course then tables off.



Why I bring that up is, its not about me, or them, its merely about exposure. At this time, we average fifteen gravid monitors at any given time year around. (we have slowed way down)You have to admit, that teaches you something.



If you want to learn about monitors, the smart thing is, make decisions that expose you to monitors. Thats what i did. But it created a problem, it made the gap so wide, others fail to understand it. They keep thinking(the smart ones) my one, yields the same information as his fifty. Hmmmmmmmmm not all that likely.



Which of course leads back to the begining. On a daily basis, I see, monitors nesting, hatching, pairing, fighting, breeding, etc etc. Something omitted is, all this is based on properly raising monitors. Most forget that at all times, I have a grip of raise ups. This is not a exact count, but I imagine I have over 100 babies hmmmmmm 150 babies of many species growing up successfully right now. And have for a decade and a half. So what would I know? its not the dust. hahahahahahahahaha



Thanks for your patience. Cheers

[ Show Entire Thread ]