>>The top two I would consider to be Okeetee.

>>

>>The definition I like is the one in the Kathy Love book -

>>

>>"deep red dorsal blotches ringed by well defined, jet black borders. The ground color ranges from russet to bright orange and is contrasted clearly and cleanly by the distinctive black ..."

>>

>>I do not consider Okeetee to be a locality, but a pattern phase named after a locality where it occurs (it occurs at other localities as well). Okeetee Hunt Club locality may or may not be Okeetee phase. Some are not.

>>

>>The definition of Okeetee amongst some has been stretched because of the market value of the name - kind of like what has happened with brooksi.

>>

>>A reverse okeetee would be an okeetee by that definition were it not for the amel gene. There is a gorgeous picture of one on the front of Kathy's book. Deep red saddles, distinct white borders, bright orange background.

>>

>>Of course - opinions on what makes an Okeetee varies.



The reason I asked the question is due to the unfortunate fact that there are still two schools of thought making it almost impossible to say if a snake is an okeetee, or not, just by looking.

Some people still define any normal with lineage traceble to the "Hunt Club" as okeetees and others don't care where they come from as long as they meet the visual criteria as you described.

I'm a little of both. Mainly due to the simple fact that there are still two schools of thought.

I would really like to see the locality and visual separated.

Keep the okeetee name for the okeetee phase and use Jasper county or hunt club to describe the locale specific lines.

The only problem with calling any corns from that area, locale specific, is there were several people in the early years of corn breeding who let their unwanted hatchlings go in there.

Have they adapted and produced, yes. Is their lineage truly hunt club? some yes, some no.

I know that the belief that there is a wild line of zig zag okeetees from the Jasper county area is not really true. John Albreight (spelling? sorry John) released the originals in the area.

Of course even the staunch locale only people can't decide on the true borders.

Some say only the hunt club. Some say Jasper County.

I say how do you know?

Let's just say the borders of the hunt club constitute the "true" okeetee zone.

What if a pair of corn snakes produce young 10 miles away from the "zone" and the survivng hatchlings spread out, as they do and one of these happens to meet up with another corn and they produce young. What if one of these young ventures out and happens to cross into the hunt club and two days later a lucky herper finds this snake? Guess what? This snake is no more a "Hunt Club" snake then the one I might have caught in Alabama but it is labled and Okeetee. "I have witnesses, I caught that snake in the "zone" it is an Okeetee." WRONG!!

Now 15 years ago a pair or corns that were both born on "Hunt Club" property mate and produce off spring. One of those offspring meets up with another snake that was born in the "zone" and they breed. A couple of their hatchlings remain in the zone, meet up with others from the zone and produce more young. Now you have several generations of "Hunt Club" corn snakes and one of these crosses the "Hunt Club" border and a couple of days, or a even couple of weeks later is caught several miles outside the "zone". Guess what? This snake that is more deserving of the name Okeetee is all of a sudden just a "normal" that was caught nearby.

How screwed up is that?





Ok, all that said...you did a pretty good job..

The top to are from Love line okeetees and the bottom one is a "just" a nice natural.

I need to go back to using natural.

I never have liked the term "normal" to describe wild type corns. Nothing normal about them!!!


-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.

"Resistance is futile"

Jimmy Johnson

(Draybar)

Draybars Snakes



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