>>I really know little about Salvators, but it appears there are three types of black waters in the states, komaini, togian, and that new one that Glades brought in a few years ago, you know, the mini KD. I heard these were being discribed as something new, but I did not hear if that happened. Also, all three have been advertised in recent months on KS.
>>

1. Komaini is the only completely black and patternless race of water monitor found to date and comes from a country that prohibits their export for a period longer than they can live.
2. Togian Water Monitors are not completely black.
3. The ones Glades brought in were Varanus komaini, originating from one of the world’s most notorious animal smuggler, at least that is who they quoted to buyers concerning their origin and that same notorious smuggler told them where they ‘purportedly’ came from.
4. There is yet another ‘black’ Water Monitor from another location, but it is not completely black and has yet to show up in the pet trade.

>> I know of a number of people who have them and I heard of a few breedings. One advertisement showed a neonate hatching.
>>
Only two clutches have been produced from one location; they were the ones that posted the advertisement and the ones I referred to in the earlier post.

>> Also, the point is, these are all Appendix 2. Which means, if they are in the country they are legal. No matter what country they come from or if they export or not.

Oh, but it does matter, because only the country of origin (of the specimen) can legitimately make the permit, unless they were captive bred or could produce the paperwork from the country from which it was imported (or other proof that the specimen(s) were obtained legitimately). In the case of this variant, they are being smuggled and shipped out of Malaysia, so it is still a smuggled animal. (The only exception being two clutches produced in Costa Rica)

Your above statement is in error. This is why the Varanus olivaceus from the Philippines being ‘laundered’ in Japan are not allowed come into the US, as well as the Star Tortoises (Geochelone elegans) from India and Sri Lanka. Both of these examples are CITES Appendix 2 species coming from countries that prohibit export and are not allowed into the US.

>>
>> In this case, I believe sighthunter is bringing them in from Europe, which means, there WILL HAVE TO BE PERMITS ISSUED, then if they come in with permits, they are no problems. If FWS does not allow them in, then problem solved.
>>
>> I am not positive but I believe FWS does not go by subspecies. So to apply for a permit all they need to do is label them V.salvator and as such, there will be no problem, as there are about a billion in the country already. Again, I am not positive. FWS can and do decline any species they want, so again, it they allow them in, then no problem. And it appears they are letting them in.


Although you are correct that FWS does not go by subspecies, they do appear to have issues with animals smuggled out of countries that prohibit export. A subspecies that is endemic to only one small area within one country that prohibits export and thereby shows evidence of smuggling does present a rather large problem. (Does the Lacey Act right a bell?- prohibits trade in wildlife, fish, and plants that have been illegally taken, possessed, transported or sold. Thus, the Act underscores other federal, state, and foreign laws protecting wildlife by making it a separate offense to take, possess, transport, or sell wildlife that has been taken in violation of those laws. The Act prohibits the falsification of documents for most shipments of wildlife (a criminal penalty) and prohibits the failure to mark wildlife shipments (civil penalty).) So, Sighthunter has quite a bit to be worried about! Cheers

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