Are they going to send out an individual correction notice for each flawed animal listing on that black list that we bring up?
If so then we are going to be here a long long time because their list is big and I intend to go through every animal on it, one at a time.

Until such time as they correct the black list to include garter snakes at a ssp. level, the letter of the regulation outlaws it at the species level. They may choose to enforce it the way they want, but the letter of the the regulation reads at the species level. And thats bad. It's bad because there is no snake in Texas called the Common Garter Snake (T. sirtalis) as listed in the regulation, and they will have a tough time getting a judge to ignore the letter of the law. At a minimum it leaves room for substantive argument.

Can anyone tell me when the black list first appeared?
Did anyone NOT at TP & W review the black list?
Where specifically was public comment taken on the black list?
(I know that there was public comment taken on the white list)

TP&W not only appears to have had no public oversight on the creation of the black list, there was apparently no TP & W oversight on the black list either. If there had been the inclusion of non-native species and animal listings at the species level would have never occurred and none of this mess would have happened.

Why are all these animals being taken away from public access with no scientific data presented to support it? They didn't even appear to have the scientific data to prepare the black list much less support it.

Lets talk about another couple species on TP & W's black list.

Cotton rats.

My question is can ANYONE at TP&W even tell the difference between Tawny-bellied Cotton Rat, Hispid Cotton Rat, and the Yellow-nosed Cotton Rat? And if so can they come over and tell me which ones are in my barn?

Of all the species that Texas Parks & Wildlife needs to spend time & money to outlaw can someone please explain to me about cotton rats? I think they have every species of cotton rats in the state on that black list. I will hazard a guess that at least twice as many cotton rats are living in my barn than I am legally entitled to have according to the regulations. (Of course mine are all "free range" cotton rats.)

I might just spend my weekend collecting up my cotton rats and other native rodentia, boxing them up, and taking them to the TP&W meeting on Weds. to see if the commissioners can identify them and tell me whether they are on the black list or not. I would suggest that anyone that fears they have native vermin that might appear on the black list, catch it, put it in a box and come join us. We can ask the commissioners together to identify the rodents, roast marshmallows, and sing kumbayah together in the spirit of regulation compliance.

The black list needs to be pulled, the species listed on it need to have supporting data, and IF it ever re-appears it needs to be done at the sub-species level so that the LETTER of the law matches the INTENT of the law.


>>The following is an e-mail conversation with TPWD.
>>
>>From: Matt Wagner
>>Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 1:54 PM
>>To: Mark Pyle
>>Cc: Robert Macdonald; David Sinclair; Duane Schlitter; Jennifer Brennan
>>Subject: RE: Non Game Regulation
>>
>>The prohibited list went into effect October 21.
>>
>>Only the subspecies of T. sirtalis that are native to Texas are covered by the prohibited list.
>>
>>Matt Wagner, Ph.D.
>>Program Director, Wildlife Diversity
>>Texas Parks and Wildlife Department
>>4200 Smith School Road
>>Austin, Texas 78744
>>(512) 389-4778
>>(512) 389-4593 FAX
>>
>>________________________________________
>>From: Mark Pyle
>>Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 11:06 PM
>>To: Matt Wagner
>>Subject: RE: Non Game Regulation
>>
>>Mr. Wagner,
>> Thank you for your response. I am glad to here both of these were just mistakes. I do have a question about subspecies. I have read some concerns and questions about certain animals. One in particular is the Common Garter Snake (Thamnophis sirtalis). There are many subspecies of (Thamnophis sirtalis). Some subspecies are not native to Texas. Does the list include all subspecies or just those that are native to Texas. It looks like the Black List is in effect at the present time. Could you please clarify when the Black List came into effect or when it will come into effect.
>>
>>Thank You
>>Mark Pyle
>>DFW Herp Society
>>Education Coordinator
>>
>>________________________________________
>>From: Matt Wagner
>>Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 5:09 PM
>>To: ratsnake@charter.net
>>Cc: Robert Macdonald; Jeannie Munoz; Jennifer Brennan; Duane Schlitter; David Sinclair
>>Subject: FW: Non Game Regulation
>>
>>Mr Pyle � Cornsnake and House Mouse were erroneously included on the Black List. Since they are not indigenous to Texas they cannot be considered Nongame Wildlife as defined in TPWD regulations. These animals will be removed from the Black List at the earliest possible date. In the meantime, it is not a violation to possess and sell these animals.
>>
>>Thank you
>>
>>Matt Wagner, Ph.D.
>>Program Director, Wildlife Diversity
>>Texas Parks and Wildlife Department
>>4200 Smith School Road
>>Austin, Texas 78744
>>(512) 389-4778
>>(512) 389-4593 FAX
>>
>>________________________________________
>>From: Robert Macdonald
>>Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 4:02 PM
>>To: Matt Wagner
>>Subject: FW: Non Game Regulation
>>
>>
>>
>>Robert Macdonald
>>Regulations Coordinator
>>Texas Parks and Wildlife Department
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Mark Pyle
>>Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 12:58 PM
>>Subject: Non Game Regulation
>>
>>Mr. Macdonald,
>> I am hoping you can clear up some of the roamers I have been hearing about the new non-game lists. The black list has been generating a lot of discussion. Corn snake (Pantherophis guttata) is on this list. Is this a mistake or is this list not reflecting the subspecies that is intended? House Mouse (Mus musculus) is also on the list. I have to assume that is was an oversight. This would cause a lot of problems with feeding reptiles, researchers and education facility�s. Please let me know if there are any corrections to be made and a time frame that they will be corrected. There is some confusion with the date the new list will take effect. Could you give me the official date that the new list will be in effect. I will pass this info on to anyone that is effected.
>>
>>Thank You
>>Mark Pyle
>>DFW Herp Society
>>Education Director
>>
>>

Edited on November 3, 2007 at 01:47:44 by jeffb.

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