Good questions. Here is my take on those two subspecies. there are differences in scale counts, saddle counts, and coloration (see olive Stull's work and Duellman's later work for details).Both groups are considered "ugly ducklings" that can go through a major color change in early adulthood. Jani have been selectively bred in the pet trade for color and generally speaking jani tend to be a bit more colorful although the folks over at Splitrock reptiles have some brightly colored locality deppei deppei. there is a great deal of variation among populations and individuals in both groups but the nominant form, deppei deppei seems to have the most dramatic range of variation. I have individual animals with a bright "green banana" ground color, others with absolute black and white ground color(offset with a neat redish brown head color!), animals with super clean ground color others with an almost speckled apperance, some with bright yellow tails, orange tails or even reddish tails, etc. You get the idea. John Cheery has always had some of the very nicest and varied deppei!

I ended up with a locality group that included an anertheristic reccesive gene. Unfortunetly I was just learning how to keep them and I believe the gene carried some other trait that weakened the animals and they simply did not do well. We later isolated a gene that displays hypo-melanism and often a pattern aberancy. These animals are stronger and we learned how to satisfy their needs and ended up keeping them alive. The genetic origin of that set of genes was a big black and white (I'm talking northern pine black and white), locality male.

As I see it the trick, if you want to call it a trick, is to keep these animals a bit cooler with a distinct thermogradient. Their biochemistry, imune systems, etc will benefit and they will thrive. You can keep them alive without these settings but our experience is that they do not thrive. they originate from habitats that are higher elevation and therefor experience cooler overall temps with fairly dramatic daily fluctuations in high and low temps. they seem to be most sensative to this as young animals. But remember even snakes from cooler regions can get out in the sun and shoot their body temp up if needed to digest a meal, fight off a digestive pathogen, etc. so provide that oppotunity with your thermogradient. My adults are feeding machines! I had a large green male that I gave to a friend and that snake pounds really big rats always!

typical Pituophis in that they will give you a bite but would rather bluff, not flighty like the Santa Cruze Island gophers (P. c. pumilus), fairly calm and observent. They do get really massive, maybe not 110 inch sayi giant but not very far behind. My male jani is nearly 7ft long and really girthy.

There is still alot to learn about the taxonomic condition of these two groups. Once throught to be a part of a larger group that included lineaticollis. there are individuals that may at least to some degree intergrade with annectans in the affinis range.

P.d.jani is most commonly described from the eastern range and P.d.deppei from the western range of the sierra madre but some new work may actually prove a third subspecies in the southern extent of their range.

Take home meassage is don't choose but rather get both groups and enjoy!

I had to down size this image so it is a bit grainy and gives the snake a dirtier look than real life.

[ Hide Replies ]

• D. Jani & D deppei - Steve_Craig, Sat Jan 26 01:48:55 2008
• P.d. Jani & P.d. deppei - Ginter, Sat Jan 26 10:47:32 2008
• RE: P.d. Jani & P.d. deppei - colubridman, Sat Jan 26 11:08:24 2008
• RE: P.d. Jani & P.d. deppei - Ginter, Sat Jan 26 12:08:18 2008
• RE: P.d. Jani & P.d. deppei - Steve_Craig, Sat Jan 26 12:35:37 2008
• RE: P.d. Jani & P.d. deppei - Joe Forks, Sat Jan 26 23:16:26 2008
• RE: D. Jani & D deppei - colubridman, Sat Jan 26 11:03:15 2008
• RE: D. Jani & D deppei - Steve_Craig, Sat Jan 26 12:42:34 2008
• RE: D. Jani & D deppei - colubridman, Sat Jan 26 19:39:33 2008
• RE: D. Jani & D deppei - jason nelson, Sun Jan 27 16:07:30 2008
• Jani & deppei & notes on lineaticollis - sjohn, Sun Jan 27 18:30:56 2008