Posted by:
DonSoderberg
at Thu Feb 14 10:17:31 2008 [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by DonSoderberg ]
- - - - It is true that Rich started the fluorescent line because he THOUGHT the reverse / albino okeetee lines I started had emoryi in them. It was only much later that he discussed it with me, and I let him know that it is my CANDYCANE lines, not the reverse okeetee, that may have some small amount of emoryi due to a couple of light backgrounded creamsicles that were used in the foundation back the late '80s (sure must only be a few drops of that emoryi left by now, since no more creams were added in since at least 1990, as far as I can remember). By that time, his lines were already firmly established, so he had no reason to change. - - - -
KATHY, I OBVIOUSLY HAVE MY TIMELINE SKEWED AND SURELY THE STORY HAS BEEN TOLD SO MANY TIMES, IT'S CHANGED. LOL YOU'RE SURELY CORRECT THAT HIS LINE WAS NAMED BEFORE HE THOUGHT YOUR'S HAD EMORY'S BLOOD IN THEM. SORRY IF I MISQUOTED THERE.
- - - - My albino / reverse okeetee line started mainly with some albino corns I got from Mike Krick back in the early '80s. At that time, there were no special kinds of amels - they were just amels. But Mike's had really wide, white borders, and beautiful dark red blotches. We were breeding A LOT of "plain ol' albinos" for the wholesale pet trade at the time, so we started breeding progeny from his line to other albino corns that also had wide white borders. Just prior to that, we had started pulling aside babies that had "no-white" patterns (those later became known as sunglows), but hadn't yet quite started the candycane project. We noticed that the wide bordered corns looked kind of like we would expect an okeetee to look like if it had no black, and we needed to call them something. So we had the idea to call them reverse okeetees, also known as albino okeetees. We didn't realize at the time how confusing it would be to people, since we had no idea if these snakes had even a drop of okeetee blood in them. But that is how they looked, and the name stuck. But I don't think we had any creamsicles yet at that time of development for this morph. Creamsicles were new and expensive back then, so I have no reason to suspect that any of the albino corns we got from various sources would be anything other than pure corn. - - - -
COOL. THANKS FOR THE HISTORY. I SAW MY FIRST CREAMSICLES IN TUCSON WHEN JOHN MARTIN BRED ALBINO CORNS TO EMORY'S. HE GOT THE ALBINO CORNS IN THE EARLY 80S (MAYBE LATE 70S) FROM ERNIE WAGNER. TRADED A MEX MEX SOMEONE CAUGHT IN TUCSON FOR THEM. HE REPORTED TO ME THAT THE F2S WERE FADED, UGLY ALBINOS AND HE DROPPED THE PROJECT. OF COURSE, THEY LATER BECAME KNOWN AS CREAMSICLES.
- - - - I got my first creamsicles from Kevin Enge at Hogtown in Gainesville, Florida. By then, we already had no-white (sunglow) corns and reverse okeetees. Some of the first creamsicles we obtained had very light backgrounds. We happened to have a female albino corn with a very light background, so bred it, the light creams, and a couple of reverse okeetees with a very light background together for a few years. We added in a Miami phase or two with little or no orange in the background. That group became the foundation for our candycane line. Then over the years refined it, adding other corns as needed. But as far as I remember, we never added candycane to alb. okeetees, only the candycanes got the dose of creams, along with other founding stock. And the fact that alb. okeetees were added to candycanes (but no candycanes were added to the alb. okeetee projects) seems to have caused the confusion about what is pure and what is not. - - - -
GOOD THING WE'RE STOPPING THAT OLD RUMOR THAT PROMPTED PAT TO ASK HIS QUESTION IN THIS THREAD. : )
- - - - However, unless you can trace a line's ancestry back to the wild, there is no way to guarantee any line is "pure" (and there is a slight chance of "contamination" even from the wild!) Back in the '80s, albino corns were much more readily available than creams, so I have no reason to believe that the original albinos had cream in them. But I can't trace them back to the wild, so that is about as sure as I can be about the whole origin & history of albino /reverse okeetees and candycanes in my lines. - - - -
I AGREE WITH YOU. CORN KEEPERS TODAY CANNOT IMAGINE A TIME WHEN A MORPH LIKE AMEL WAS RARE. FEW IF ANY BREEDERS THOUGHT OF CROSSING THEM WITH EMORY'S (THEN SOMETIMES REFERRED TO AS WESTERN CORNS) AND UNTIL JOHN DID THAT IN THE LATE 70S/EARLY 80S, I'D NEVER HEARD OF ANYONE DOING IT. THERE WAS TOO MUCH MONEY TO BE MADE IN THE PURE ALBINO CORNS TO MESS WITH CROSSING THEM. HENCE, I AGREE WITH YOU THAT UNLESS SOMEONE WAS FRANKENSNAKING WAY BACK THEN WITHOUT TELLING, IT IS DOUBTFUL THE EMORY'S BLOOD FLOWED IN THOSE SNAKES. LOOKS LIKE WE JUST STAMPED OUT ANOTHER RUMOR FIRE. THANKS FOR SQUELCHING THE IDEA THAT EMORY'S BLOOD IS IN THE REVERSE OKEETEES.
DON
South Mountain Reptiles
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RE: A small change... - DonSoderberg, Thu Feb 14 10:17:31 2008
