good points Don. And this is what I wanted, the people who have been breeding for a long time to get in with their opinions.

With what you said about a corn being 36" safe to breed depending on health, size. How many grams do you consider good size for a 36" corn snake that is 2 years or less, to breed?

225 TO 250 GRAMS.

I have always been told by different PEOPLE about the 300grams, 3 years old and 3 feet rule.

WHO WERE THOSE "PEOPLE"? "PEOPLE" THAT READ IT ON THE FORUMS or PEOPLE THAT HAVE THE RESUME OF EXPERIENCE TO PERSONALLY TESTIFY TO THE LEGITIMACY OF THAT "rule"? FOR ABOUT A YEAR, I'VE BEEN GETTING LOTS OF EMAILS AND READING LOTS OF FORUMS ABOUT THE 3-3-3 "rule". UNTIL A YEAR AGO, I'D NEVER HEARD OF IT. I THINK WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE IS THAT SOMEBODY WITH GOOD INTENTIONS PUBLISHED THAT, AND SINCE IT tends TO WORK, PEOPLE RUN WITH IT. JUST BECAUSE "PEOPLE" POST AND SAY IT ALOT, DOES NOT MAKE IT A "rule". SINCE I HAVE OVER 30 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE THAT HAS NOT SATISFIED THAT "rule", I PERSONALLY DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED "OFFICIAL GUIDELINES". BTW, I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY TIMES I RUN ACROSS FORUMS WHOSE MAIN PARTICIPANTS ARE CONSIDERED "EXPERTS". THEY HAVE POSTED HUNDREDS OF TIMES, BUT MOST OF WHAT THEY KNOW IS FROM WHAT THEY HAVE READ. YES, THEY HAVE EXPERIENCE, BUT MOST OF WHAT THEY POST IS WHAT THEY HAVE HEARD OR READ, AND SOME HAVE ACTUALLY ONLY BEEN BREEDING SNAKES FOR ONE OR A FEW YEARS. I'M NOT PUTTING DOWN THESE PEOPLE, BUT POINTING OUT THAT WE SHOULDN'T TAKE ALL WE READ WITH BLIND FAITH. ON SOME FORUMS, REPUTATION POINTS ARE AWARDED TO FREQUENT POSTERS; PRESUMABLY TO LET YOU KNOW IF YOU CAN TRUST WHAT THEY SAY. WHILE THAT MAY HELP, THEIR REP POINTS DON'T NECESSARILY INDICATE THAT EVERYTHING THEY POST IS GOSPEL.

IT'S A SUPER SAFE SET OF NUMBERS (REGARDING SIZE), BUT AGE SHOULD NOT BE THERE. THE PERSON THAT MADE THAT UP MUST HAVE WANTED TO HAVE A CATCHY PHRASE THAT PEOPLE WOULD REMEMBER. SORTA LIKE CALLING A PLUMBER BY DIALING 1-800-FIXALEAK. IT'S MORE NUMBERS THAN YOU NEED, BUT PEOPLE WILL REMEMBER IT FROM THE EXTENSION NAME. PROBLEM HERE IS THAT IF PEOPLE WAIT UNTIL A 36" SNAKE IS 300 GRAMS, THEY MAY WAIT A VERY LONG TIME AND/OR IT COULD BE BORDERLINE OBESE. IF YOU THINK YOUTH CAN NEGATIVELY IMPACT A FEMALE CORN, WAIT TILL YOU OVERFEED A SNAKE, JUST TO GET IT UP TO 300 GRAMS. YOU COULD OVERSHOOT YOUR MARK AND LOSE THE SNAKE TO OBESITY LINKED COMPLICATIONS. ALSO, DO YOU WEIGH IT WITH EGGS OR RIGHT OUT OF BRUMATION? THOSE EGGS DEVELOP FAIRLY QUICKLY. CORN SNAKE EGGS CAN BE ALMOST FULL-SIZE WITHOUT HAVING BEEN FERTILIZED YET. EVEN HALF-DEVELOPED EGGS CAN CONSTITUTE A SIGNIFICANT PERCENTAGE OF A SNAKE'S WEIGHT. IF IT'S 280 GRAMS AND YOU'RE WATCHING THE SCALES TO PUT THE MALE IN FOR THAT SEASON, YOU COULD INTRODUCE THE MALE A WEEK TOO LATE AND GET ALL SLUGS, IF SHE HIT 300, BUT WAS NOT RECEPTIVE TO SPERM.

HENCE, THE 3 FT PART OF THAT SOUNDS GOOD. THREE YEARS IS PLAYING IT SAFE, BUT 300 GRAMS CAN BE AMBIGUOUS. IF PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR A CATCHY SERIES OF sameNUMBERS (3-3-3), IT COULD WORK, BUT I'D BE NERVOUS ABOUT THE 300 GRAM WEIGHT PART OF THE SERIES. JUST LIKE PEOPLE, SOME CORNS METABOLIZE ODDLY AND COULD BE 3.5-4.0 FEET LONG, BUT UNDER 300 GRAMS.

With all the differnt negative possibilities of breeding younger snakes, I think the cons outweigh the pros. Again, that is my opinion. It also has to do with the fact that I have learned from experience.

THERE YOU GO AGAIN. YOU SAID young AND YOU SAID "I have learned", AS IF IT ALWAYS HAPPENS. "young" S NOT BE AN ELEMENT OF THE EQUATION. BELIEVE ME, WILD CORNS DO NOT READ FORUM THREADS. WHEN A YOUNG FEMALE HAS A GREAT FEEDING SPRING, SHE DEVELOPS EGGS. WHEN SHE DOES THAT, SHE'S DEFINITELY GOING TO BE FERTILIZED. GRANTED, WILD SNAKES GET MORE EXERCISE, BUT WILD CORNS BREED WAY BEFORE THEY'RE 300 GRAMS.

I'M NOT DEBATING SOMEONE "PLAYING IT SAFE", BUT I DON'T WANT PEOPLE THINKING AGE IS A CRITERION FOR ACHIEVING SAFE EGG DEPOSITION, AND THE HEALTH OF THE MOTHER. AGAIN, IT'S ABOUT QUALIFICATION. YOUR POST GAVE A PRECONCEPTION THAT IT WAS WRONG TO BREED TWO-YEAR OLD SNAKES. I THINK IT'S SMARTER TO GIVE SNAKE KEEPERS THE FACTS AND LET THEM MAKE UP THEIR OWN MINDS, vs GIVING THEM THE IMPRESSION THAT THERE IS A FIRM STANDARD TO WHICH THEY MUST COMPLY TO SUCCESSFULLY BREED CORNS. IF I WERE A NEWBY READING YOUR THREAD, I'D AUTOMATICALLY READ INTO YOUR ORIGINAL POST, THAT IT WAS A BAD THING TO BREED TWO-YEAR OLDS.

I am not trying to put my opinions on others. Like I mentioned in another post, this is one of those things where people are set in their way of thinking. I am not trying to tell people what they should do with their own corns. I have just learned that it is not healthy.

SO IN THE LAST STATEMENT OF THAT PARAGRAPH, YOU ARE AGAIN DECLARING THAT IT'S "not healthy" TO DO THAT? I'M LIVING AND PROFESSIONAL PROOF THAT YOU ARE NOT CORRECT.

I read the other post about this topic and it made me think that what was being said is its ok to breed all corns at 18 months. I just felt that people should know about the possibilities of complications. Like you said, one subject should not be talked about without the other (size and age). I know it is hard to get someones intent and tone in a letter/post, and I may be mistaken on how the original post was intended. But, I totally agree with you that there are other issues besides age.

THERE YA GO GIVE ALL THE DETAILS AND YOUR OPINIONS. EVEN SHARE YOUR EXPERIENCES, BUT LET THEM MAKE UP THEIR OWN MINDS, BASED ON HEARING all THE FACTS, VS WHAT HAPPENED TO ONLY YOU. IF YOU PERSONALLY BRED 100 YOUNG FEMALE CORNS AND 20 OF THEM HAD SEVERE COMPLICATIONS, JUST CITE YOUR EFFICACY. DATA LIKE THAT WOULD BE DIFFICUL TO IGNORE. I CAN TELL YOU THAT I HAVE DYSTOCIA RELATED PROBLEMS WITH ABOUT 3% OF THE "young" FEMALE CORNS I BREED. ONCE AGAIN, IT'S BECAUSE I QUALIFY MY BREEDERS BY SIZE RATHER THAN AGE.

WHAT YOU SAY HAS MERIT. I JUST WANT THE FACTS TO BE OUT THERE, SO PEOPLE CAN DRAW THEIR OWN CONCLUSIONS. MANY READERS ON THIS FORUM TEND TO BELIEVE MOST (IF NOT ALL) OF WHAT THEY READ HERE. THEY SHOULD HERE BOTH SIDES OF IMPORTANT ISSUES.
South Mountain Reptiles

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