That sounds about right in terms of what I have heard. They are really nice looking animals but my money is on the genitic work not bearing out a valid new subspecies. IMHO they are not all that different than many deppei have seen from other localities. They seem to have colorful tails but I can show you images of P.d.deppei from other localities that look exactly the same. I do not intend to in any way diminish that locality or their look but I am simply not sold on them being so incredibly unique in apperance, again this is just my opinion and I am in love with that locality so I want to avoid stepping on anyones toes.

One of the characteristics of this subspecies(P.d.deppei) is their incredable variability. In a 1990's article published in Vivarium the authors coined the term "variable pine snake". I have hatched absolute black and white animals, animals with banana green ground color, individuals with blazing orange tails and pinkish heads, etc. all from the same parents!

John Cherry has alot of experience with these guys and can attest to the extreme variability.......John? are you reading this? Jump in....

my two cents...........even with the high price of copper that still isn't worth much!

The animal below is one example of a simple recesive gene for hypo-melanism and pattern aberancy.

I lack the space but I know some folks are crossing in the Rio Conchos animals with these Los minbres Durango animals and we should see results of that in the next couple of years...............

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• (re)building a pit collection - daveb, Sat Jun 14 20:20:10 2008
• RE: (re)building a pit collection - ginter, Sat Jun 14 22:01:08 2008
• RE: (re)building a pit collection - FL_Herps, Sat Jun 14 22:39:49 2008
• RE: (re)building a pit collection - ginter, Sat Jun 14 23:21:11 2008
• RE: (re)building a pit collection - alstotton, Sun Jun 15 10:50:25 2008
• RE: (re)building a pit collection - FL_Herps, Sun Jun 15 11:14:22 2008
• RE: (re)building a pit collection - shannon brown, Mon Jun 16 13:28:20 2008
• RE: (re)building a pit collection - ginter, Mon Jun 16 22:51:13 2008
• build a pituophis library... - daveb, Sun Jun 15 17:06:45 2008