Well Ross Allen claimed he had seen hundreds, all of the discriptions that I have read never mention the eye mask or dotting or speckels on the head, his common discription was "pale/grey or buff head" and I have personaly seen ten over the last twenty years, have also seen lots of photos from different individuals and my guesses on locality are usally accurate, Mark can tell you I'm no amature in the feild. Ocala pines are very distinctive(orange posterior, black flecked anteriors),so are duval co. pines (very maroon or brick red and no black or very little), most I have seen were from dade city and all were very similier as well(silverish colored). also Tom I have been told by oldtimers of groups of pines that were found in panhandle where thay are more common and then released south in the state to control rodents in citrus groves, this could explain interior fla. pinesnakes look like the northern fla. pines, most groves are in the spine of the state. Search this "Indexed Bibliography of the Herptofauana of Florida" check out citations 57.-154.from R. Allen, I'm not trying to change your minds but I have been throughly convinced that true southern florida pinesnakes have no, not even remnants of the eye mask, but I have concidered the theroy about the coastal pines being cleaner and I could still be wrong...of all the pines that I have seen, all come from only four or five different countys. as for my pics posted, the pines on the tennis net are from wild adults found in orange co. and the big one in the hole and on the fence was found in sarasota co. Damn midnight! so whata ya say Tom, do I have a point? JB

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• southern pine pics...continued for tom - jodscovry, Sun Jun 22 23:03:59 2008
• RE: southern pine pics...continued for tom - Phil Peak, Mon Jun 23 12:23:08 2008
• RE: southern pine pics...continued for tom - jodscovry, Mon Jun 23 16:16:04 2008
• RE: southern pine pics...continued for tom - Phil Peak, Mon Jun 23 16:42:54 2008
• RE: southern pine pics...continued for tom - jodscovry, Mon Jun 23 21:20:07 2008
• allthough.... - jodscovry, Mon Jun 23 21:25:52 2008
• RE: southern pine pics...continued for tom - Phil Peak, Mon Jun 23 21:47:08 2008
• RE: southern pine pics...continued for tom - LloydHeilbrunn, Mon Jun 23 21:42:18 2008
• RE: southern pine pics...continued for tom - Phil Peak, Mon Jun 23 21:55:39 2008
• RE: southern pine pics...continued for tom - jodscovry, Tue Jun 24 08:47:48 2008
• aother good example... - jodscovry, Tue Jun 24 10:54:49 2008
• RE: aother good example... - daveb, Tue Jun 24 13:55:02 2008
• RE: another good example... - jodscovry, Tue Jun 24 15:29:25 2008
• RE: southern pine pics...continued for tom - LloydHeilbrunn, Tue Jun 24 21:08:10 2008