Thanks for the citation JB. I'll see if I can look that up. I find the Ross Allen thing to be very interesting. I saw him once years ago at Silver Springs giving a rattlesnake presentation. As I recall, Silver Springs was in Ocala. Do you think the description of the mugitus that he gives is based upon local specimens from the Ocala area or from throughout the state? I know he used to bring in the hides from EDB's from all over and sell them. I know he also payed for indigo snakes collected from all over to feed his king cobra's in his collection.

The type specimen of mugitus was found in the extreme southern part of their range in Palm Beach county. It would be interesting to read the description of the type specimen. I think you may be on to something as far as trends go but I suspect there is too much natural variation within populations of Pits to speak in absolutes.

A couple of examples for you. The bullsnakes of the Kankakee sand prairie in the upper midwest are well known to have a certain definable look. I can tell you from experience that while many of these animals fit this description, there are others there that do not. The same can be said for the northern pine from the pine barrens of N.J. While well known for the classic black and white pine snake there is a large degree of variation including those with gray body color, reddish body color and even yellowish. Some of these snakes have clearly defined anterior blotching while others are so suffused with melanin that there is no separation of the blotches at all. Some have unpatterned heads while others have heads that are almost completely black. Anyhow, my point is trends are one thing and absolutes are something else entirely.

Phil

[ Hide Replies ]

• southern pine pics...continued for tom - jodscovry, Sun Jun 22 23:03:59 2008
• RE: southern pine pics...continued for tom - Phil Peak, Mon Jun 23 12:23:08 2008
• RE: southern pine pics...continued for tom - jodscovry, Mon Jun 23 16:16:04 2008
• RE: southern pine pics...continued for tom - Phil Peak, Mon Jun 23 16:42:54 2008
• RE: southern pine pics...continued for tom - jodscovry, Mon Jun 23 21:20:07 2008
• allthough.... - jodscovry, Mon Jun 23 21:25:52 2008
• RE: southern pine pics...continued for tom - Phil Peak, Mon Jun 23 21:47:08 2008
• RE: southern pine pics...continued for tom - LloydHeilbrunn, Mon Jun 23 21:42:18 2008
• RE: southern pine pics...continued for tom - Phil Peak, Mon Jun 23 21:55:39 2008
• RE: southern pine pics...continued for tom - jodscovry, Tue Jun 24 08:47:48 2008
• aother good example... - jodscovry, Tue Jun 24 10:54:49 2008
• RE: aother good example... - daveb, Tue Jun 24 13:55:02 2008
• RE: another good example... - jodscovry, Tue Jun 24 15:29:25 2008
• RE: southern pine pics...continued for tom - LloydHeilbrunn, Tue Jun 24 21:08:10 2008