Okay, Mr. Tillis, one more time, just 'cause I don't have anything better to do at the moment, then I'm done with this thread....



Mr. Tillis wrote:

""The other thing that most people here are forgetting is that bearded dragons don't get Rep-Cal calcium powder or Herptivite in the wild.They don't get anywhere near the variety of quality vegetables that we provide them while living in the wild.We as herpers sometimes go a little overboard with supplementation.Bearded dragons have done fine in the wild without all this pampering.""



Me: No, there's no rep-cal in the wild. But it's already been determined, long ago, by those very vets that you seem to idolize so much, that reptiles in captivity need suplementation, due to the fact that they are unable to seek out the proper nutients on their own.



From Kathryn W. Tosney, Professor of Biology at The University of Michigan's web site http://www.biology.lsa.umich.edu/research/labs/ktosney/file/BDcare.html:

"Dragons must have two things for proper bone growth: calcium and full-spectrum lights (below). If calcium or vitamin D3 are deficient, the dragons get "metabolic bone disease", which is deforming and ultimately fatal. Most diets and care regimens today focus on maximizing calcium and vitamin D3 levels. To synthesize vitamin D3 your dragons need light at the right wavelengths; unless you can offer light typical of the desert, both in intensity and spectral quality, you should supplement the diet with calcium, and probably with D3 as well."



Prof. Tosney doesn't say if this applies to adult dragons here, so here's something that does address adult dragons:



From "The Bearded Dragon Manual" by Philippe de Vosjoli, Robert Mailloux, Susan Donoghue, V.M.D., Rodger Klingenberg, D.V.M, & Jerry Cole, copywrite 2001.

From Page 60 :

"Adult bearded dragons should be offered four- to six- week-old crickets and/or superworms daily or every second day. Other prey for occasional feeding can include mealworms, wax worms, and other commercially farmed invertebrates, such as grasshoppers, locusts, and other field-collected insects (make sure the fields and lawns haven't been treated) and small vertabrates such as young mice. Adult dragons also relish young lizards, so should never be allowed access to pet baby dragons in the house-hold.

Supplemented salads should be offered daily or every second day."



Mr. Tillis again:

""I know everybody has the best interest of the animals here.Just don't be to closed minded and don't condemn others without proof.You may just learn something new.Veterinarians are working with knowledge that has been learned through science.Doctors that treat humans learn new things everyday that contradict what we have been told all our lives.Does that make them idiots.I don't think so.I don't want to get into fights with anybody here.We all need to learn to state our opinions instead of calling a dedicated professional a quack just because his opinion is different than your own.""



Me again: I don't recall anyone saying a vet was a quack or an idiot, only that some give POOR ADVICE. Some do so out of ignorance, or, believe it or not, out of a desire NOT TO LOSE A PAYING CUSTOMER.

As much of a shock as this may come to some people, there are actually doctors and vets out there who aren't "Dedicated Professionals". Some are only in it for the money.



Oh, and the info I presented from Prof. Tosney and Mr. Vosjoli may be a year or two old, but I don't believe there's been any earth-shaking new discoveries in herpetology since they were first printed that would make what they're saying invalid.



I don't think it takes a degree in biology or anything else to see that if an animal that's being treated for a parasite flare-up that was probably brought on by being stressed by a change in it's surroundings and care to begin with ( Being boarded ), that it's probably BAD ADVICE to suggest stressing it further by changing it's diet, lighting, substrate etc.

Especially when those changes are contrary, or questionable at best, to what MOST professionals and breeders of that animal say they should be.





D.A.

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