Hi Jeff,



Thanks for the info and pics. I've also consulted vets and long-time Indigo owners, the consensus is that freezing wild

caught prey will kill off any parasites. Regarding the fish,

there is no doubt in my mind that indigos eat fish in the wild. Jack goes nuts over fish, and after one fish feeding he (instinctively?) started "fishing" in the water bowl! (I've seen

garter snakes "fish" in the wild, so I'm pretty sure that's what he was doing.) I've also heard other indigo owners comment on how much their snakes love fish. As far as store bought-goldfish being harmful, I couldn't find anything concrete. Best I could find is that some snake owners seem to worry about copper sulfate. Copper sulfate is used in aquariums to treat fish parasites and/or diseases. From what I read, in certain doses copper sulfate is toxic to certain types of fish, as well as plants and invertebrates. However, other vertebrates are unaffected by it. Obviously I don't have a study proving whether or not Jack will be negatively, neutrally, or positively affected by copper sulfate (or any other chemical) he might get by a few goldfish every couple months, but next time anyone reading this is in the grocery store, check out the ingredients in baby formula.



Thanks again,

Ed







>>Ed,

>>...We only kept a few Indigos for any length of time. There was a demend for them and we sold or traded most of them that we got. All the Indigos we kept were messy snakes. They probably all did have parasite problems of one sort or another. Though people keeping Indigos today and feeding them rodents do report that they are messy snakes. A few that we kept were fed toads and they would sometimes pass masses of worms. Must be something about Indigo Snakes today because my brother forwarded these PICs of a Texas Indigo Eating a DB Rattlesnake. The story with the PICs mentions this being a wild Texas Indigo though it looks to me like it may have instead been staged PICs of the feeding of a captive Drymarchon. We once had a medium large Eastern Indigo eat a large injured Yellow Ratsnake that was a couple inches longer than the Indigo.

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>>>>Hi Jeff,

>>>>

>>>>This is the kind of stuff I'm looking for. Did you notice

>>>>any problems then or in hindsight (ie, stunted growth, an abnormal amount of sudden deaths, sickness, visual signs of malnutrition, parasites, etc.) with your Indigos? So far Jack appears happy and healthy, and he seems to be in the range for normal growth (he's close to 4 feet long at 14 months old.) I will be getting a fecal check/exam soon as well. If you have any other suggestions for monitoring his health, I would greatly appreciate the input.

>>>>

>>>>Thanks,

>>>>Ed

>>>>

>>>>>>Ed,

>>>>>>...I am not going to argue with you about this. LOL. I fed my Indigos lots of everything except rodents. I had plenty of reptiles and amphibians to feed them and the rodents cost real money and were reserved for the boids. I fed fish to Watersnakes but never tried them on the Indigos. Who knew back then that they liked fish?

>>>>>>Jeff

>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>Agreed, but personally I'm not out to "win" an argument, and I sincerely hope that's not the way I present myself. That's what frustrates me. I just want to a) learn from others who actually have more than hot air upon which they base their strong opinions, and b) share my experience and ideas. If someone actually has evidence that what I'm doing might present a real risk to my snake, I will change things. I should mention that there are Dry. owners who have discussed the diet issue rationally, and some have actually thanked me for doing things differently.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>It's not about arguing, or at least shouldn't be.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>Thanks,

>>>>>>>>Ed

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>Nobody WINS an internet arguement. They are pointless. Participating in them is a waste of time.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>Sean/Stephen,

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>I just checked out that discussion on the garter snake forum. It's really sad that people can't answer a few simple information-gathering questions without all the peripheral stupidity, much less respect other people's opinions. Somehow all these know-it-alls know everything there is to know about snake nutrition, yet I wonder if many/most of them have even looked at a nutritional breakdown of prey items. How can anyone with an ounce of brains at least not consider the idea that an all rodent diet for a herp eating species may not be ideal for the snake's digestive system?? Especially when the snakes on all rodent diets are crapping constant diarhea cannons?? Or if they they actually have proof that there is even a negligible risk of parasites surviving in anoles that have been frozen and then harming the snake. Hell, any food item can be contaminated - even rodents! It really saddens me, especially for a threatened species like D. couperi, since being so closed minded does nothing to help improve husbandry methods of captives. I think this is yet another example of Jeff's "snakes are great, people suck" philosophy.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>I would jump in to the garter snake forum discussion, because I

>>>>>>>>>>>>see some of the same stupidity and unsubstantiated opinions I've already come across and tried to discuss rationally. But I officially give up, I'd rather go talk to the wall.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>Anyway, I commend you guys for your open mindedness.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks,

>>>>>>>>>>>>Ed

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