Joe,



Thanks man as this is an excellent post! For me there are two parallel "equations" that are occuring within this discussion and they are what happens in the wild (in-situ) and what happens in captivity (ex-situ) when comparing intra-specific/intergrade versus hybrid. In other words what do the animals do when left to their own devices in their natural environment as opposed to the vision of a human keeper in captivity (for what ever reason).



On the in-situ side of the equation, I am in 100% agreement with you for certain localities of the mexicana group. Over the past year and a half or so, I've seen too many "new" photos from those herpers that venture into the field (both past and present) and document what is actually there. Whether the correct terminology is intra-specific or intergrade can be debated (another subject of discussion altogether) but they are intergrades to me. Having said that, just as with those original Brooks Canal "Brooksi" with their unique phenotype...This same "condition" must also exist in-situ with the leonis/thayeri. In other words, there must be pockets (regardless of origins and/or physiogeographic barriers) in which "pure" (for lack of a better term) examples of the phenotype(s) exist.



On the ex-situ side of the equation, IMO it's the vision (breeding objectives) of the human keeper that decides on the pairing of each adult pair in captivity and then how those porgeny are represented to others. I've seen some "mad science" in some respects that IMO is just that...MAD SCIENCE! On the other hand, some folks go far and away in their attempt to track what they have in an attmept to keep it together so to speak for what ever that's worth...



So what are we left with? This is America and we're still reasonably "free" to follow our own "vision" regarding our breeding objectives...It's what happens when it leaves the collection (representation) that makes the difference ex-situ. The in-situ discussion is being driven by folks both past and present in an attempt to figure out just what is what in nature and document it for all of us to appreciate their "passion" for what they are doing for all of us...I personally am very appreciative of you "old timers" that have kept that fire lit for us "johnny-come-lately's" find that light in the darkness...



My 10 cents worth is...



1) in-situ = nature's selection on the basis of a myriad of factors wihtin their natural environment



2) ex-situ = man's selection on the basis of breeding objectives (i.e. vision)



...that results in intra-specific/intergrade (in-situ) versus hybridization in ex-situ captivity.



Again, GREAT POST JOE!!!!!!!!!!!!



Later,

Jim.



PS: Can you talk about the future taxonomic discussion or is that for another day? Just wondering...









-----
CSRAJim

[ Show Entire Thread ]