The following is the response I drafted addressing Pennsylvania regs. that are all about shifting responsibility for environmental degradation and taking away our rights to own and breed reptiles that Jeff and others just don't seem to understand.

Captive breeding and making something economically valuable are the keys to species preservation. Draconian laws that stop people from owning reptiles are certainly not the answer.

I find it dispicable that these Bureaucrats are allowed to keep scapegoating us hobbyists for there ineptitude. We need help and support to fight these laws. Where's PIJAC and Others with influence on this issue? What about permit systems? Getting slam dunked by these regulators for selling captive bred animals to people in New York who can't procure the animals from the wild and buy endemic captive bred is hard to take and real close to home because that's what I had to do in New Jersey. There should not be a problem with it, just get a receipt.

There is a problem because of New York draconian, illegal laws that organizations with money and influence, (PIJAC and Kingsnake) refuse to challenge. Now Pennsylvania has done the exact some thing as New York. Come On Wake Up People!! I can't buy a house in New York or Pennsylvania now unless I give up my reptiles because of their stupid laws and am stuck in New Jersey.



Saturday, December 24, 2005
Douglas J. Austen, PhD
Executive Director
Fish and Boat Commission
P.O. Box 67000
Harrisburg, PA 17106-7000

Re: Comments on Notice of Proposed Rulemaking; Title 58. Recreation; Part II. Fish and Boat Commission, Chapters 53 and 77; General Provisions; Fishing; PFBC Proposed Rulemaking 175

Executive Director Austen:

I have the following comments regarding proposed regulatory changes to Title 58. Recreation , Part II. Fish and Boat Commission, Chapters 53 and 77 General Provisions, Fishing, specifically, Sections: 77.3; 77.7; and 77.8.

The drafting of these proposed regulatory changes by the Pennsylvania Reptile and Amphibian Technical Advisory Committee demonstrates a serious lack of knowledge and understanding regarding the husbandry requirements (captive care and breeding) of reptiles and amphibians.

The Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission is supporting and sponsoring proposed regulatory changes that rely on the erroneous belief that “over collecting” is the primary culprit responsible for native species decline when, in fact, the primary cause for Pennsylvania native species decline is “Habitat Destruction” which Pennsylvania State Regulations have failed to curtail.

The Pennsylvania Environmental/Land Use Regulatory Program, as well as most other state programs (nationally), have failed miserably in their attempt to protect suitable habitat and provide habitat continuity and diversity required to support these native reptile and amphibian indicator species.

To take away the right of Pennsylvania Residents to acquire captive bred native Pennsylvania reptiles and amphibians is both ridiculous and Machiavellian. Your argument that “Conservation Officers” cannot identify wild native Vs captive born and bred native animals is easily avoided through a “permit process”.

Your Agency should be supporting Captive Breeding Programs of Native Pennsylvania Reptiles and Amphibians Not Discouraging them by making it illegal to import or export native Pennsylvania Reptiles and Amphibians.

Reptiles and Amphibians available for sale today, including Northeastern Box Turtles and North American Wood Turtles, are unquestionably captive born animals that are in prime health due to successful, achievable, private, captive breeding programs.

It is abundantly clear to me that the Pennsylvania Reptile and Amphibian Technical Advisory Committee has no appreciation for private, successful captive breeding programs that have resulted in the preservation of numerous reptile species, including, the Galapagos Tortoise, the Aldabra Tortoise, the Radiated Tortoise, the Sulcata Tortoise, the American Alligator, the American Crocodile, to name a few. To disregard captive breeding programs as a legitimate, responsible, and successful approach to species preservation is irresponsible and not based on reality.

I’ve been interested and actively involved with the study of reptiles and amphibians for over 40 years and I’ve never seen a baby wood turtle or box turtle in the wild. Do you really believe that people go out and capture, from the wild, baby turtles and try to sell them on some perceived black market?

Through these proposed regulatory changes, the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission is trying to shift responsibility for native Pennsylvania reptile and amphibian population decline to some “bogey man/black market” that doesn’t exist instead of accepting responsibility for regulatory failure to protect required habitat.

It is reprehensible and irresponsible to blame private individuals for species population decline and then set up regulations to prevent the successful captive breeding of these animals because of Pennsylvania regulatory program failure. Private hobbyists, scientists, enthusiasts, and researchers are not to blame for species decline but rather over-development and destruction of required habitat is the reason for species population decline.

Here is what some of the experts say regarding private, captive breeding programs:

Practical Encyclopedia of Keeping and Breeding Tortoises and Freshwater Turtles; A.C. Highfield, 1996.

“the technical knowledge gained in captive breeding projects can contribute greatly in the success of other projects based in the natural habitat.”;

“The ultimate objective of most serious and conservation-conscious keepers is to achieve consistent and sustainable captive reproduction.”;
“captive breeding holds the most promise for eventual repopulation”;

“Breeding threatened species of reptiles in captivity is increasingly becoming the only method by which fellow enthusiasts can obtain specimens”;

Turtles & Tortoises of the World. David Alderton, 1994.

“But it is simply not enough to try to conserve turtles by attempting to prevent their capture.”…”it is their economic value that offers their salvation.”

“The turtle issue reveals the misplaced emotional fervour which presently threatens to undermine the overall credibility of the conservation movement. It would, indeed, be a tragic irony if a combination of misplaced human sympathy and continued hunting were to prove the two major forces which led to the extinction of any species of turtle.”

I support any regulations that would prohibit the capture, from the wild, of any endangered native or non-native species of reptile or amphibian.

I am vehemently opposed to any regulations that would prohibit the legal acquisition or sale of captive-bred native or non-native reptiles and amphibians. These proposed regulations, specifically sections 77.3, 77.7, and 77.8 would take away my rights to acquire and maintain in captivity, legally acquired C.I.T.E.S. II listed animals available for sale to me within the United States.

I am one of thousands of serious hobbyists, scientists, and enthusiasts that would be made criminals by these proposed regulatory changes that are based on completely faulty information.

Additionally, these proposed regulations would prevent the capture of the northeastern box turtle and north american wood turtle without first having them listed as State Endangered. This must be interpreted as an obvious legal overstep by the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission of its regulatory authority.

These proposed Pennsylvania regulations are more stringent than the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service C.I.T.E.S. import/export requirements that impose “no controls on shipments of CITES II animals between States or U.S. territories…”. This indicates to me that these proposed regulations would interfere with federal regulations regarding interstate commerce, trade and shipment.

It is quite apparent that these proposed regulations have received no legal review. Furthermore, the Pennsylvania Reptile and Amphibian Technical Advisory Committee, upon which you relied for advice, is clearly uninformed and misguided as evidenced by these proposed regulations and what the individual Members have said in the Press.

I would question any recommendations coming from this Reptile and Amphibian Technical Advisory Committee and believe a re-evaluation of all of its recommendations is warranted based on these misguided proposed regulatory changes put forth for your consideration.

These proposed regulations could be amended to provide for an Annual Permit that requires “proof of purchase/receipt” of native Pennsylvania Reptiles and Amphibians purchased from outside their endemic area and certainly allow for the export of captive-bred native species to areas outside their endemic range.

Thank you for considering these comments.

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