If it is ok to breed chickens in meat-plants, I figure it must be ok to breed geckoes in shoeboxes. One may argue that we should improve the minimum standard of welfare for chickens and shoebox-geckoes, but otherwise, when minimum requirements are met, the responsible husbandry of geckoes and chickens must be allowed to exist.

One may also argue that I have no right to mistreat geckoes in shoeboxes just because society can´t shape up chickenwelfare in the country. Do I choose to defend chickens or do I "cut my losses" to save my hobby a little while longer?
In Norway reptilekeepers defend their rights, aquaculturists defend their rights, and bird people theirs.
Reptile people in norway have been nagging for many years about;
Why can´t we keep leopardgeckoes when people can keep exotic animals like parrots and goldfish?
In stead of legalising reptiles, our authorities descided to ban birds and fishes.
Our government is now working on the establishment of a "Positive list" which will permit that certain species be kept in private terrariums. Such a positive necessitates a general ban against all exotic species, from which the positive list can be an exeption of.

If the different animal owner organisations cannot effectively help each other, each of them isolated are easy pickings for the AR giants of the US.

Normally, the animals who don´t fit the description of exotic potentially invasive species, will fit the description of exotic potentially dangerous animals. If not these two, AR movement will coin some other principle which can constrict how many and what type of animals we keep.
If herpetoculture does not translate into a positive influence on conservations of biodiversity, then what good is it?

Leopard geckoes are a natural resource that originally belongs to afghanistan. In breeding leopard geckoes, large breeders are making large profits on a natural resource that originally belongs to afghanistan, but the wealth that captive leopard geckoes generate do not translate to conservation initiatives targeted at free ranging leopard geckoes.

If it is is legal to culture exotic biodiversity in terrarium. there is room for some type of taxation on breeding profits of certain species, and there is room to demand that part of ex situ propagation translates into in situ conservation.

ExoTerra is undertaking regular conservation initiatives, and so are an increasing number of companies in the petshop industry aswell as an increasing amount of individuals in the herpetocultural community.
EAZA, the European association of zoos and aquaria have started breeding projects in which zoos and private keepers join forces in the European studbook foundation. The zoos get the ability to monitor and manipulate the studbooks and gene pools of animals who are kept by private enthusiasts. This way the zoos don´t have to pay for the mainenance of the animals, while they still have the possibility to monitor and manipulate the formation of reserve populations of threatened species.
However, one may still argue that herpetoculture generates more negative than positive consequences in respect to conservation of natural habitats and biological diversity.

Herpetoculture may well be a lucrative buisness but if all it does is to generate "more money for the rich americans" then it is a little hyppocrite, since the rich in this context are making money on a natural resource which originally belongs to the poor afghans. This point was explained to me by an englishman at a EUFORA conference in Germany.
But.. before we can figure out how to translate more of herpetoculture into conservation of ciodiversity, we must first waste all our recources on defending our right to keep exotics.
From before, the herpetocultural society in the US is vastly outconquered by the AR movement in respect to financial means, and I would expect also political power.. Regrettably, I can´t see any solid facts to suggest that this is changing.

I am admiring the herculian effort you guys are putting up, in gathering tons of thousands of letters. That is not possible to do here in Norway, and it is alot harder to do once a ban is in place.
I really really hope that through some miracle in the land of the free and the home of the brave, americains are able to safe-guard mankinds right to engage in responsible biological husbandry.
One thing is sure... If reptiles are criminalised also in the US, then all hope may be lost for norwegian reptilekeepers, then we will never be able to turn our government around..
I don´t mean to put pressure on you, but it is up to you guys to save the world through providing a good example for the rest of us to follow.
Keep up the good work americans, don´t let us down now!
You will win because you cannot aford to loose!
(it may only take a some decades longer than anticipated, if you let HR669 slip through your fingers.)

Hope I haven´t offended anyone in here, that is not my intention.

best wishes
oby

sources;
ESF website - http://www.studbooks.org/
EAZA website - http://www.eaza.net/

[ Hide Replies ]

• HR 669 - ballroom, Sat Apr 18 16:56:10 2009
• RE: HR 669 - obeligz, Sun Apr 19 10:18:21 2009
• Bravo! - cassity, Sun Apr 19 13:02:36 2009
• chickens! - obeligz, Sun Apr 19 17:04:31 2009
• A positive list is what we must avoid - wstreps, Sun Apr 19 19:17:24 2009
• ... and vegetarian dogfood - obeligz, Mon Apr 20 18:25:24 2009
• RE: ... and vegetarian dogfood - wstreps, Mon Apr 20 22:04:34 2009
• little devils grow into big monsters - obeligz, Tue Apr 21 13:30:09 2009