Posted by:
obeligz
at Thu Apr 30 14:08:04 2009 [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by obeligz ]
Before we blitz the media we have to gather ammunition so that we can shoot the enemy in the head. I think we will find significant ammo deposit in confronting the mad scientists. there is nothing I would like more than to bleep a mad scientist in the bleep but I fear I lack credibility and knowledge but I trust at least some folks in here have a friend who has a friend who knows a veritable herpetologist who has genuine experience and diploma in "true science", as opposed to "false propaganda", wich seeks to end the existence of vivarium reptiles in the US!
I think you are right though, if we cannot discredit mad scientists ourselves we can at least try to identify them, that is ammunition to our cause.
In Norway Most often I find mad scientists through reading the sources in theor documents, wherever sources of litterature are cited, there are some mad scientists involved in me experience. Normally the further I investigate into their sources, and their sources sources, the more bleep I find.
The lack of science in AR litterature is often profound, almost as much as the indifference most animal owners have towards animal rights activism.
Is there some scientific basis to NRIP? is there a need to involve science in NRIP?
Playing devils advocate again, I am not convinced mites should be illegal, they are an important part of diversity and they do have a function in ecology. I have had mites on several of my animals in the past. In the beginning I removed mites but then I stopped and my animals didnīt appear to feel much discomfort and they didnīt loose health.
I am talking about marginal cases here, so please bear with me. In a commercial snake breeding facility it would sound like a less bright idea to introduce mites but looking at Lygodactylus geckoes though, the case could be different.
I got from a friend a group of 6 Lygodactylus lutepicturatus who had mites around throat, neck and some around hind legs. They were also generally in a bad shape and I have bad experience with de-mite-ing weak geckoes so I put them in my viv to fatten up a bit first. Gex loved the viv and ate like raptors right away and basked alot in the day. 3-4 months later the geckoes were healthy, strong and active and the population of mites living on them had reduced in size and stabilised.
I think in a vivarium where food is abundant, one gecko can easily eat enough food for itself and 102 mites. Mites can transmit pathogens from one individual to the other but reptiles should also have a healthy immune system which can handle the natural threats in their native environment. Mites are predators which are not necessarily dangerous to the reptile who lives in a roomy naturalistic vivarium. My vivarium 150x60x100cm and contained at the time 8 lygodactylus in total in addition to arrow frog. In addition to the 6 lugodactylus lutepicturatus I had a pair of young Lygodactylus williamsii who were mite free before the arrival of the others.
In the period of 3-4 months where I kept the two species toghether the male williamsii caught some few mites around the neck, the female never caught mites. A few months of after I sold the group of lutepicturatus, both williamsii were mite free and I havenīt treated them for mites. (Please read in to this topic and consult with your local reptile forum _before_ experimenting with mites in your own animals.)
I suspect either the mites were species specific, or something in my viv killed off most of the mites all the time, could happen, 2 small gex in big planted terra. Or perhaps geckoes developed behavior to reduce mites themselves? topic for another debate.
My point is, In the naturalistic vivarium, mites are a small but essential part of the big picture since they are a small but essential part in ecology. They are a healthy stimulus of geckoes immune system and mites can weed out weak animals some times.
Also tropical gecko mites who live on specific tropical geckoes do not really pose a threat to the kingsnakes in Texas.
Do we really need to ban mites all over? I guess, if we must there should be room for compromise, but I am strongly against a total blanket ban on mites.
Kindest regards
oby
[ Hide Replies ]
- NEW HR669 - NIRIP? - READ THIS - TOM_CRUTCHFIELD, Tue Apr 28 10:17:25 2009
- RE: NEW HR669 - NIRIP? - READ THIS - Joe_Hiduke, Tue Apr 28 11:53:59 2009
- RE: NEW HR669 - NIRIP? - READ THIS - b_rickard, Tue Apr 28 21:42:07 2009
- RE: NEW HR669 - NIRIP? - READ THIS - USARK, Wed Apr 29 07:26:18 2009
- RE: NEW HR669 - NIRIP? - READ THIS - TOM_CRUTCHFIELD, Wed Apr 29 08:02:36 2009
- RE: NEW HR669 - NIRIP? - READ THIS - brhaco, Wed Apr 29 08:12:56 2009
- mmz.. - obeligz, Wed Apr 29 11:01:52 2009
- RE: mmz.. - brhaco, Wed Apr 29 17:44:30 2009
- hm? - obeligz, Wed Apr 29 19:31:55 2009
- RE: hm? - brhaco, Wed Apr 29 21:30:40 2009
- Exactly... - kathylove, Wed Apr 29 21:51:40 2009
- Youīre kidding! ^_^ - obeligz, Thu Apr 30 03:16:16 2009
- Why?? - natsamjosh, Thu Apr 30 06:50:37 2009
- RE: Why?? - lbenton, Thu Apr 30 07:02:44 2009
- RE: Why?? - brhaco, Thu Apr 30 07:41:39 2009
- RE: Why?? - natsamjosh, Thu Apr 30 07:59:37 2009
- RE: Why?? - lbenton, Thu Apr 30 08:41:38 2009
 In defence of mites! - obeligz, Thu Apr 30 14:08:04 2009 
- Snake alarm! - obeligz, Sat May 2 10:46:26 2009
- Offense is the Best Defense - USARK, Thu Apr 30 08:17:08 2009
- Agree with Andrew-plus... - brhaco, Thu Apr 30 08:28:01 2009
- if we read,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, - RoyalVariations, Thu Apr 30 09:20:28 2009
- RE: Agree with Andrew-plus... - antelope, Fri May 1 01:39:45 2009
- Fighting indifference - obeligz, Thu Apr 30 11:46:57 2009
- RE: Offense is the Best Defense - swiss, Fri May 1 10:28:50 2009
- Union of "concerned" scientists - obeligz, Fri May 1 08:08:35 2009
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