I don't mean to sound critical, but I have to say that I notice a few inconsistencies with making that kind of conclusion, Kevin. First, subocs don't breed right away all the time right at the moment of introduction. In fact, most of the time, they don't. Several breeders who I know have hardly seen their subocs breed, when of course, they did...at some time. Most of what is seen between pairings appears as a female rejecting a male, but again...at some time, they do breed. You would have to have a camera on your subocs 24/7 to be sure that your snakes haven't bred, and even if you were to film all of it, you'd have to watch ALL of the footage. And no one can do that unless they have others helping them (and anyway, what sane person would care enough to help someone do that? LOL).



Also, once a female has had her ova fertilized and has started gestation, she's not going to be receptive of males.



Thirdly, there is evidence that female TPRSs store sperm from males for extended periods of time while allowing other males to copulate. This is typical of the sex with the higher gametic and parental investment (eggs and gestation) being choosy about the dime-a-dozen sperm that are out there, all trying to stake a claim with her one single shot at laying that year, and maybe, in her life.



So, no offense meant, but basically, saying that female TPRSs are only receptive for two - three days because you base it on what you did and didn't see (very limited) is akin to Cub Scout science.



Also, forgive me, but you say that two very young females, one a mere 18 months and the other at 2 and a half years, laid 11 and 15 eggs, respectively. Again, no offense meant, and sorry to be blunt, but I just find that very hard to believe.



The published record for a TPRS clutch is 16 eggs. That came from a large, very much in-her-prime female of eight years, owned by Mike Murphy. The second and third largest clutches that have been recorded in print were also from very large, mature females between their 7th and 9th years. See a pattern here?



Young female TPRSs are thinner and shorter, and so their eggs conform to their body shape by being elongate and thinner (sometimes banana-shaped), and therefore fewer. Larger, mature, older females, have much more girth and their eggs are rounder...like your female here...





The most I've heard of a 2.5 year old female laying is about 5 eggs total. And I've never heard of an 18-month-old female in anyone's collection laying a clutch of eggs ever, as female TPRSs mature more slowly than other Lampropeltinines, often about a year slower.



The record, for a Corn Snake, for example is 53 eggs, and she was five years old and very husky. Of course, this was out of a much larger sample size, as their are single companies, alone, that have tens of thousands of breeder Corns in their facilities a piece. Your claim would be exactly like someone saying that a Corn Snake in her 10th month of life laid about 50 eggs. Snakes have to grow into the capacity to be that fecund in one sitting. They simply don't have the indoor plumbing to support those kinds of numbers at such an adolescent age.



Please forgive me for sounding critical, but this and other forums has had more than its share of people (or very likely one person) going by various aliases, claiming to have literally INCREDIBLE tales of their enormous and Darwinian Demon-like prolific suboc collection, when, remarkably (and conveniently), no one else has even heard of them or personally knows them. I'm not saying that is the case with you, but we have reason to be somewhat skeptical around here.



Also, if you don't mind my asking, what is this "typical behavioral change that preceeds a females cycle" you speak of? I wasn't following you there.



Lastly, your suboc rock wall exhibit is amazing looking, and I know many of us would love to have one. I hope this e-mail doesn't seem like an attack. I'm just tryin' to "keep it real", ya' know.



Cheers,



DR
Suboc.com

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