First Post

"there is "is what it is" and there is KNOWN HYBRID. There is nothing wrong with Bob asking opinions from folks who have actually seen these things in the wild. "



The animal in question was definitely not a known hybrid. It was a generic thayeri and few of those who responded have seen these in the wild. What's more from what I've heard reported there is a significant variation in "thayeri" that can be equated to locality. That there are practically zilch (and I'm being generous there) locality based captive stock would indicate that captive thayeri should be expected to be somewhat atypical of wild types.



"I understand that you don't understand.""



For clarification because I disagree does not mean that I do not understand the root issue. I just don't understand why we're hanging so much on so little information. Just provide what you have, make your call and move on. That's the beauty of working with generics, no headaches. If I wanted headaches I'd have invested in a locality GBK project and then had the whole thing trashed the first time something even moderately atypical popped out.



Second Post

"because folks didn't ask questions. Right now there are snakes (hybrids) on the classifieds that are mis-labeled, and the poor guy probably wonders why he can't sell his "thayeri"





Asking question when you buy stock is different from speculating on animals that are slightly atypical. Second there are also hybrids in the classified because some people like them and some don't care because it's just a pretty pet snake to them. Lastly, I'm hard pressed to feel sorry for anyone not moving obvious hybrids without stipulating as much whether he's ignorant of the fact or not.



”well the breeders that WANT TO are going to keep track and when someone asks where they got the animals they will have no problem telling and showing photos."



I have no problem with that and I support keeping more pure lines (or lines more pure) but I still think it more honest to pressume there is a little greeri in the woodpile unless you have "drilled down" and acquired a complete history. This is the standard you espouse for GBKs is it not?



"It's a shame that's what it has come to, but as you say, "IT IS WHAT IT IS"."



Agreed!!



"There are without a doubt some lines that were not compromised and if we aim to keep it that way that is what it will take."



Perhaps or perhaps not, the established standard however is that in the absence of complete data you can not assume any line is pure. I didn't made that rule I'm just trying to prevent a double standard.



Saying or inferring a line is pure without complete history while speculating on other's stock smacks of self promotion. Too many locality guys are just market nichers and its getting hard to tell the difference.



"BY ALL MEANS ASK FOR OPINIONS, but please understand that an opinion is just that, an opinion and not proof of hybridization."



Hence, in my opinion, it is a crock, which I realize is completely ironic.



"Also there's a huge difference between answering someone when they ASK for an opinion, and just plain calling someone out, out of the blue."



Agreed but....when after the purchase one question an animal on an open forum are they not calling out the supplying breeder?



"Everyone has animals they can't trace, but that is not proof that they have been compromised."



and opinions are just opinions so why muddy the waters?



What I'd really like to see is a discussion about what the characteristics of true thayeri are and what to do with animals that stray from the standard suite of characteristics. Be now it should be widely recognized that captive stocks tend to diverge from their founding populations. If a 100 years from now we want captive thayeri to be remotely representative of the founders we'd better start selecting breeders on something other than eye appeal.


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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

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