Posted by:
Mike_Rochford
at Tue Oct 6 15:41:48 2009 [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by Mike_Rochford ]
Ernie,
Thanks for almost being nice. I will post the relevant portion of the e-mail you are speaking of below. Everyone else should know that these points were made in response to the paper written by Dave and Tracy Barker so it might help to refer to that while reading this. I was writing this for use on another herp forum... not for publication. I'm not too concerned about your opinion of my writing style. I did take your advice and contact the Barkers. Dave wrote a long and heartfelt response and I think he is a decent guy. I've admired the Barkers since I was 10 years-old. However, the paper they wrote about Burms in FL is full of errors. Anyway, here is the e-mail (and thanks for respecting my privacy... it's no longer an issue in regard to this e-mail):
1) Pythons ARE invasive. Individual animals matter when you are dealing with endangered species. Just killing a few Key Largo Woodrats is enough to qualify them as invasive. They have also eaten a (federally endangered) wood stork. How many other animals do you think have been killed by pythons over the years? 10,000 pythons (the more conservative estimate) would sure eat a lot! Even if they all only ate one meal, that's still 10,000 vertebrates killed in the everglades. How many meals do you think a python eats in a year? In a lifetime? Nobody knows but the point is that it's a large number and there's no way you could say it is not environmental harm.
2) Feral hogs and house cats really aren't that common in the everglades. House cats generally need people around in order to survive and there aren't really any people in the glades. They can be found around the edges of the park but that's about it. I've only seen hogs on two occasions and I rarely see any sign of them. In the panhandle we see them almost daily and it is easy to see where they have been rooting around. These are just my observations though and are mostly from the national park, not the greater everglades region. I highly doubt they are "recognized as the most detrimental predators of native wildlife." Who said that?
3) "The simple fact is that
most exotic and “alien” species, both plants and animals,
don’t derail ecosystems and they may make positive
contributions."
That statement by the Barkers is misleading. Most exotic animals are not invasive. And most invasive animals are not large, generalist predators.
4) "We are not aware of any studies published on the diet
of Burmese pythons in their native lands."
A "graduate biologist" should be able to find some. They are there. The one I'm looking at now says they eat a variety of birds, mammals, and reptiles. This includes a full-grown leopard and several species of deer.
5) "Burmese py-
thons in South Florida are recorded to have eaten a variety
of vertebrate prey—birds, mammals, and even an alligator
or two.
Most alligator–python interactions observed in the
Everglades have been the alligator eating the python."
I'm sure the Barkers didn't have access to the info since it's not published yet (but that's the point I'm trying to make: they can't be considered experts ON FLORIDA PYTHONS) but we're into the double digits on the number of times pythons have eaten alligators in FL.
6) "These big adult Burmese pythons are not going to
leave the park and crawl to Miami, although a number of
governmental “authorities” have implied that."
I doubt they will go into Miami. We don't keep track of pythons found east of Krome Ave. I know someone on this forum does to some degree. Maybe he will chime in and tell us how many he has found in suburban areas. I'm not sure if they are in Miami-proper, but they do leave the park sometimes and end up on private land.
7) "These big
snakes don’t move far. "
We had a translocated snake move over 40 miles within a few months. It's not uncommon for pythons to move 5-10 miles at the start of the rainy season.
8) "But, in turn, pythons will
likely be identified as significant predators of feral cats
and young feral hogs, both identified as detrimental inva-
sive species in the Everglades."
So far, in our research (not counting the results from the "Dietary Habits of Burmese Pythons" paper by Brien et. al (because I don't have it in front of me), there has been 1 feral cat and there have been no hogs found in the gut contents of pythons that we have examined. I believe the Brien et al. paper may have had a cat or two but it didn't have any hogs.
9) " Just as iguanas in Miami are
harvested for meat, many cultures consider python to be a
delicacy."
Well, from what I hear, the mercury levels are pretty high so we'll see how that goes.
10) "Two Key Largo woodrats were found in
the stomach of a Burmese python that
somehow had gotten from mainland Florida
several miles across Florida Bay to Key
Largo. "
More than two have been found.
11) " If Key Largo woodrats are
truly important and if we want future generations of kids
and biologists to be able to experience them as living
creatures, then it is time to catch every last one of them
and put them in cages with exercise wheels; create two or
three colonies, each managed by a commercial rodent
breeder; remove the endangered status; and let them be
commercially bred."
There is already a captive breeding program in place for Neotoma.
12) "On the other hand, if these rats are left in their (semi-)
wild state, they are doomed. They will go extinct."
So they are saying that pythons WILL cause environmental harm? Then they are admitting that they are invasive species by the definition they provided!
13) "In the natural range of the Burmese python there are a
number of small and medium-sized wild feline species.
Based on captive behavior and stomach-content analysis
of wild Florida pythons, there seems no doubt that in their
native range Burmese pythons eat cats—they may be cat
specialists."
That's funny. Earlier in the paper they said they don't know of any diet studies done in the native range of Burmese pythons! Pythons are not cat specialists. They are GENERALISTS. Talk about a biased statement by the Barkers.
14) "Python Pete is a publicity stunt."
Python Pete was a volunteer effort by a park employee... not part of funded research. He did show potential and my OPINION is that dogs can be trained to find pythons.
15) "It seems a curious coincidence that one of the persons
who will benefit the most from federal funding to fight the
python problem would be the one passenger in the heli-
copter flying over the enormity of the ENP that just hap-
pened to pass right over this very bizarre
scene. Dr. Skip Snow, the National Park
Service biologist stationed in the Ever-
glades and the on-site biologist most in-
volved with Burmese pythons, and pilot
Mike Barron happened to notice the car-
casses as they flew over the swamp. After
making this absolutely extraordinary dis-
covery, they flew back to base and re-
trieved a National Geographic photogra-
pher who was apparently just waiting around until some-
one could find him something to shoot. They returned
and took the photos that shook the Internet. Never before
have pictures of two dead rotting animals been so popular
online."
This is a horrible paragraph, illustrating that THE BARKERS ARE NOT EXPERTS ON THE FLORIDA PYTHON SITUATION. Skip Snow was not in the helicopter when the "exploding python" was found. Mike Barron, the pilot, was with another researcher from a nearby university and he came back for Skip later. Skip does not have a Ph.D. and should not be referred to as "Dr. Skip Snow." The photographs were not taken by a National Geographic photographer. They were taken by Mike Barron, the pilot. Since they were taken with a camera owned by the national park service, the pictures were public domain and anyone (including National Geographic) was free to use them (for free, much to Mike Barron's disappointment!!!).
16) "We can find no mention of the proximity of the
crime scene to a road, but perhaps the python ate a road-
killed gator? It might have been a smaller gator killed by
a larger gator.
Of course, it’s also possible that some prankster stuck
the nose of a road-killed gator in a gash into the body
cavity of a dead python and positioned it on an exposed
bank along a flight path."
That prankster must be really persistent and really good because we keep finding pythons with gators inside them!
17) "Are the Burmese pythons in South Florida pets that
were released by irresponsible pet owners?"
"Considering that the Miami metropolitan area has a
population of millions of people, is one of the two main
ports of entry in the USA for imported exotic reptiles, has
more exotic animal dealers and distributors than any other
city, that keeping reptiles is particularly popular in South
Florida, and that all of this is right next door to ENP, it
certainly seems possible that a half-dozen snakes every
decade could have ended up in the wilds of South Florida."
They answered their own question. Nobody is saying that every snake out there now was once a pet. I believe the media has misunderstood the issue and said that before, but biologists certainly don't believe that. I mean, I just posted a pic of a wild python nest. OBVIOUSLY, they are breeding out there. The point is that the pet trade is ULTIMATELY responsible, whether it was a hurricane damaging a breeder's facilities or whether it was an individual that released some snakes. I would LOVE for a pet industry person to admit there is a problem. Maybe if the pet trade would police itself the government wouldn't feel like it has to step in and do the policing. There IS a problem. I don't like it. I like keeping pets. But there IS a problem. I could start a thread called "Post all the escapees you've found outside of a certain south FL reptile distributor..." Would it be enough evidence once people started posting all their pics? My old roommate found 5 ball pythons and 1 rainbow boa in one night there. WHY DOESN'T ANYONE WHO WANTS TO CONTINUE KEEPING HERPS POINT A FINGER AT ESTABLISHMENTS LIKE THIS AND PRESSURE THEM TO CLEAN UP THEIR ACT!!!
And I say that as someone that wants to keep venomous snakes. And lots of them. I understand the concept of snowballing legislation and I understand that I, too, may be affected by the legislation that might come from the python problem.
That's all for now. There are still several pages of the paper left to address but I'll have to come back to it.
Mike
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RE: Required reading..... - Mike_Rochford, Tue Oct 6 15:41:48 2009