First, Way to go NA milksnake guys! Some serious representing here lately! Now a more serious topic--"locality" Coastals.

I have some SERIOUS history with this ssp. and have bred hundreds and seen ALOT more than that in the past 20 years. There was a time you could show me a pic and I could tell you within maybe 40-50 miles where it was from. That was a few years ago now, and just about everyone that used to be "into" them is gone. Carl B doesnt have any, Steve F, Walt D, and too many others simply dont deal with them any more. There are very few people that can FIND these in the wild as their habitat is being lost very quickly. I dare say most people who keep em have never caught one from MD, VA or NC. Because of this most people who breed them dont know what they are "supposed" to look like, they only know the counties that the snakes made famous.

With apologies to TT and Tony and others, and maybe its what is being FOUND in the last 10 years, but most of what I have seen posted from ST MARYS I have a hard time with. In my experience less than 10% of St Marys and VA beach animals have ANY head pattern. Over the river into Calvert the head pattern is usually limited to spots over the eyes and a temporal stripe. Of course I am generalizing, we know how variable they can be. But my point is that are there any WC animals making it to the hobby with patternless heads from St Marys anymore? Is it a "natural" thing? Or is it a hobby thing? Is it simply that the successful breeders(Tony and TT,etc)that are flooding the market with these types? Mixed locales? Its my opinion the further south you go the more lizard eaters there are, and the patternless head follows the same path. Only in the last few years have I seen NC Coastals with the same head pattern. There is little or NO new recruitment of new NC coastals to the hobby so to me this means that MOST of these have to do with locality intergradation.

Without it reflecting on individuals or recent posts, does anyone else notice this? I've lost most of my pics of these types in my last 2 computers but I still have one that I will post when I can get to the pic. But ID of these animals is a lost art because not many have ever found one. Claiming locality is honestly representing your snakes. A 3/4 St Marys x 3/4 St Marys doenst make a St Marys. Opinions? Tony, lets be civilized, LMAO!

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