"Does anyone know where they stand with making elapsoides its own species...lampropeltis elapsoides?"



I would say on shaky ground. From what I've heard, the mtDNA data they've collected to date suggest only "historic hybridization" with adjacent forms of triangulum whatever that is. Regardless of this data, there seems to be an obvious transition area between classic examples elapsoidies, and temporalis and amura highly suggestive of integration. There is no denying however that elapsoidies is vastly different from most other milksnakes. IMHO this is just a case where the animals refuse to accommodate the little classification scheme we've devised for them no matter how hard we try.



I really don't know what to make of some of the mtDNA data that is being presented. I think its both fair to say that I don't understand it and that it's being subjected to some pretty extreme statistical analysis in order to justify conclusions. In my view some pretty odd conclusions are coming out about the mexicana complex too. Things like thayeri being more closely related to triangulum than to greeri just doesn't sit. When this info started coming out I tried a little experiment:



I place a male temperalis with a female thayeri and observed no breeding behavior.



I place a male thayeri with a female temperalis and observed no breeding behavior.



I placed a male elapsoidies with a female thayeri and observed no breeding behavior.



I placed the same male elapsoidies with a female temproalis and observed immediate breeding behavior.



I didn't have a greeri to test against thayeri but I strongly suspect that I would have seen breeding behavior straight on.



For those feeling their panties bunching up no actual breeding resulted from this. I know that observing for breeding behavior and or response is low tech relative to molecular investigation but it sure seems to indicate a relationship to me! Heck DNA evidence says I'm closely related to chimps but I never looked at one and though, "that could be fun".


-----
“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

[ Hide Replies ]

• Elapsoides X Triangulum and I am sure... - deepblue, Tue Oct 13 04:40:45 2009
• RE: Elapsoides X Triangulum and I am sure... - cn013, Tue Oct 13 05:32:08 2009
• what he said..and - Dniles, Tue Oct 13 05:43:27 2009
• RE: what he said..and - cn013, Tue Oct 13 08:17:12 2009
• RE: what he said..and - Tony D, Tue Oct 13 09:57:08 2009
• RE: what he said..and - DMong, Tue Oct 13 10:47:25 2009
• RE: what he said..and - Dniles, Tue Oct 13 20:05:25 2009
• RE: Elapsoides X Triangulum and I am sure... - Tony D, Tue Oct 13 07:54:56 2009
• If the link (not like) doesn't...... - Tony D, Tue Oct 13 08:02:15 2009
• RE: If the link (not like) doesn't...... - Dniles, Tue Oct 13 20:07:32 2009
• RE: If the link (not like) doesn't...... - Tony D, Wed Oct 14 09:37:21 2009
• No way... - cn013, Tue Oct 13 08:10:58 2009
• coastal NC elapsoides - westernNC, Tue Oct 13 11:01:49 2009
• a few more photos - westernNC, Tue Oct 13 11:03:53 2009
• RE: coastal NC elapsoides - Dniles, Tue Oct 13 20:09:38 2009
• RE: Elapsoides X Triangulum and I am sur - LIRepman76, Tue Oct 13 17:40:29 2009