I agree with your views on NC Pines,Scott. In the years before they became protected I travelled to NC and obtained specimens from two of the three disjunct areas from which they are known. To say the least, there was quite a bit of variation, though scale counts were consistant regardless of color. There was one county I visited where both white and yellow forms were present and frequently seen; residents of that county referred to the former as "Pine Snakes" and the latter as "Bullsnakes". This animal is in my view the least know of any member of the genus Pituophis, despite being the first described. As for the gentleman who began this post, if someone cannot give you the county of origin as well as the state, it's usually for one of two reasons: either the owner/seller hasn't a clue to the origins and says something to facilitate a sale, or he knows exactly where it's from and knows it was not secured through legal means. Something to consider in future transactions.

Bart Bruno

[ Hide Replies ]

• New NC Male Pine! - orchidspider, Sun Oct 18 15:53:10 2009
• RE: New NC Male Pine! - RichH, Sun Oct 18 16:10:44 2009
• RE: New NC Male Pine! - orchidspider, Sun Oct 18 16:12:17 2009
• Not Good Enough! - BBBruno, Tue Oct 20 06:29:48 2009
• RE: Not Good Enough! - sjohn, Tue Oct 20 13:12:00 2009
• RE: Not Good Enough! - BBBruno, Tue Oct 20 13:43:21 2009
• RE: New NC Male Pine! - sjohn, Sun Oct 18 18:23:49 2009
• RE: New NC Male Pine! - RichH, Sun Oct 18 18:57:25 2009
• RE: New NC Male Pine! - orchidspider, Sun Oct 18 19:49:10 2009
• RE: New NC Male Pine! - Pine_Snake_Piney, Sun Oct 18 21:24:49 2009
• Important question to spiderman - sjohn, Mon Oct 19 07:37:30 2009
• RE: Important question to spiderman - orchidspider, Mon Oct 19 14:21:33 2009
• RE: New NC Male Pine! - Spankenstyne, Tue Oct 20 00:25:51 2009
• RE: New NC Male Pine! - orchidspider, Tue Oct 20 15:45:37 2009