Brian, nice looking "ruthveni". I have only seen four LA pines that I knew them to be actual "ruthveni". Two were actual live wild caught animals and the other two were in the field pictures, not of release and track specimens, but of look what I found pictures. All four of those specimens, looked to me, more of pine snake influence then bull snakes. Again, I am know expert on LA pines, but it appears to me that most of the ones in captivity seem to have more influence from sayi. I would like to see a "ruthveni" from the far western portion of the range and one from the eastern part of the range and see if there is any difference. I know many of the pictures that are in field guides are not actual wild caught animlas, and some of them are questionalble. Most of what I have read say that "ruthveni" is closer related to sayi then melanoleucus. I've always thought that to be a very interesting topic and have wondered if a sayi crossed with a melanoleucus, is just a "ruthveni" without thousand of years of adaptation. But, your "ruthvenis" look like what folks would call them.

Dan

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