Posted by:
jcraft75
at Mon Nov 23 14:11:46 2009 [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by jcraft75 ]
Ric, and please do not take this personally, I think the question that you are asking, is why isn't the old way good enough? I would suggest that it is for some, but not for all, and certainly not for the standard that has been set for recommended breeders.
I have access to two BSR males that come from a scenario that you presented. My friend collected these males, and has since passed. I have the collection data, and was present for the collection of one of these. If I did not have this info, I would not consider using them.
If I can not confirm information, my personal choice is to not acquire an animal, or not use it for breeding. This, I believe, is the standard being set forth for those who are included in the recommended breeders list. I recently was gifted (one way to answer your earlier question on what to think of additions to collections) a male BSR by a friend in Alpine. I did not consider using it, or submitting it as authentic, until I spoke with the original collector, and verified key information. Maybe this makes me more trustworthy in some people's eyes?
As you have stated, it all comes down to trust. So, why the fuss? There seem to be two trains of thought, those who are willing to go on trust alone (which in most cases was sufficient), or those where verification and documentation are the keys. Since both personality types are present here, you will inevitably have questions, generally the latter questioning the former. These types of questions have proven to be a valuable tool in weeding out mistakes and misrepresentations. I understand that this type of questioning may hurt some feelings, and rub some the wrong way. But, when we are talking about locality breeding, where the point is to preserve genes, what is more important? The difference between the two approaches, is a recommended status, outside of that, everyone is free to do things as they wish. Maybe there should be a general alterna forum, and one for recommended breeders, where they can question themselves to their heart's content.
The reason I began taking detailed collection info, was for my own use. I wanted to have records that would, hopefully, allow me to recognize patterns or conditions where I would be more likely to see certain snakes. That may seem naive to an experienced herper, but it was how I started, and a practice that I retained. At that time, I hadn't even heard of Kingsnake and recommended breeders, or even fully understood the alterna "cult". So, perhaps I am fortunate, with the way things have developed, to have kept such records.
Contrary to what you might see as "boasting", the reason I posted my entire (BSR) collection was to eliminate many of the questions or doubts that have been raised on this forum. I recognized the fact that I was relatively unknown to most of the participants of this forum, and presented my animals in order to make pubic the animals I am working with, and where they originated. Factoring into that decision, was the fact that there are specimens that do not fit into the "typical" look, as you pointed out. I attempted to explain that, by differentiating between the upper canyon animals (typical), and the Lower Ranch, where the "atypical" animals originated. The Lower Ranch consists of much more varied substrates, and because of the physical nature of the environment, allows for a more varied flow of genes. The major factor that has kept more of these alterna from being seen, is that the conditions in which I have seen movement in this area are very rare for BSR. Also, as I have stated before, my observation has been that the density of alterna and herpers is higher in the canyon section. Many herpers will concentrate exclusively in the canyon, only rarely venturing out farther, others will ride the full length of the road, spending little time in the Lower Ranch (1.5 mile stretch). Both approaches, along with the environmental factors, are the reasons why the snakes from the Lower Ranch would not appear to be "right".
John
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RE: A QUESTION..... - jcraft75, Mon Nov 23 14:11:46 2009