I'm far from the brightest star in the sky but variability in pituophis can be extreme. Northerns for example vary greatly. I'm sure Brian can attest to this. Dull and muddy looking Northerns can be found along side clean patterned and highly contrasted individuals. Difference here though is there has always been a larger supply of Northerns to source than Ruthveni.



If so few Ruthveni have been acquired from the wild then who really knows just how variable they can be. I have put together some dark and dull colored pines in the past that have produced a highly mixed group of young that were everything but dark or dull. Why is this so unlikely with Ruthveni when it is for the most part expected with other pituophis.



If suddenly someones group of Ruthveni threw out high yellow or red individuals, would that put a question mark on their stock? Could you imagine if a hypo or even worse, an amel was produced. No one would ever believe it.



There is more to this and it is too bad this discussion annoys so many. I don't know about anyone else here but I like to learn. I like to listen and think. Too many have been dealing with this issue with blinders on as if everything that can be as already been set in stone. This hobby to me is one of interest. That's what this forum is here for. To share knowledge, experience and ideas between all those that have these same interests.



I appreciate the start of this thread and what sas thus far been added to it. Looking at this in a little different way than I have in the past where I now think the possibility may exist that in fact this pine may be a pure Ruthveni. Who would really know otherwise.

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