Jim-

>>"...I fail to see how TNC steered anyone one of the “regulators towards solutions that will still allow our hobby to continue”…H.R.669 would’ve ended it and TNC supported it…It seems to me that TNC has QUIETLY chosen a side here…"

>>I didn't say TNC steered anyone anywhere-I said it was OUR job to do so.

No Brad, they DID steer the regulators and the legislators…With TNC’s help the list went to nine…With TNC’s help, they came up with S.373! Or can’t you read? OK, we agree, it is our job (as it’s always been) and that’s why I’ve already written to my congressman about it and visited the local office to discuss this “stuff” with congressional staff.

>>And in your link I saw the TNC say that HR 669 was too restrictive. If you'll read my post you'll see that I never said the TNC was "our friend" (although to those of us who care about nature and habitat beyond our vivaria, I would argue they decidedly ARE friends), just not our enemy.

No Brad, they didn’t say it was “too restrictive”, TNC said it “may have been a bit too far-reaching” as in they didn’t expect to face such resistance to it when H.R.669 was proposed in the first place…So, S.373 (and H.R.2811) was devised as it was “better balanced and more likely to succeed”…Meaning, get this one passed and add what is missing from H.R.669 later…Via amended bills or even put it in another bill to get a “compromise” bill passed. What TNC has quietly supported, behind the scenes, is H.R.669 Brad…And that’s exactly what the AR crowd wants…I care very much about nature Brad…Nice to see that we agree on something else…I guess you can “decidedly argue” all you want…TNC DID sponsor H.R.669, H.R.2811 and S.373…I’d hardly call that being a friend to what we do.

>>You have to look at goals from the standpoint of a biologist-HR 669 was proposed because it would certainly solve a problem-but in a way that is a bit like pressing in a thumbtack with a sledgehammer. But we herpers got our point across and less restrictive measures were proposed. Again, the mainstreams will support regulations which are supported by the preponderance of the biologist community. This should not be a shock to anyone.

Look at it from a biologist’s point of view? You’re kidding! I believe that the “experts” at FWS, USGS, et al ARE BIOLOGISTS! Less restrictive measures were proposed? Like ROC’s? Hey here’s an idea, why not look at from a free citizen’s point of view without the government and their NGO partners telling us what we can and can’t have?

As a metaphor, the argument is over 10 marbles...This time I'll agree to give up 2 marbles for them to go away...In a few years the process WILL repeat itself, only then it's about 8 marbles...Again, I agree to give up two for them to go away...The process repeats itself and its about 6 marbles...Pretty soon, they have all the marbles and there is no more argument. Problem solved.

Later,
Jim.
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CSRAJim

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