return to main index

  market - home
follow us on facebook follow us on twitter link to us on LinkedIn
International Reptile Conservation Foundation  
Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You
Locate a business by name: click to list your business
search the classifieds. buy an account
events by zip code list an event
Search the forums             Search in:
News & Events: First time Sea Turtle nesting in Florida . . . . . . . . . .  Heavy Metal Scorpion . . . . . . . . . .  How a python change the course of Attenbourgh's life . . . . . . . . . .  Make good choices . . . . . . . . . .  Burmese found on roadside in Wisconsin raises issues . . . . . . . . . .  Happy Earth Day . . . . . . . . . .  Kingsnake Merch Store . . . . . . . . . .  Kingsnake returns to Tinley . . . . . . . . . .  kingsnake.com joins Monitor Brains! . . . . . . . . . .  Sneak Peek . . . . . . . . . .  Amphibian gut bacteria showing promise in cancer research . . . . . . . . . .  Herp Photo of the Day . . . . . . . . . .  Herp Photo of the Day . . . . . . . . . .  Meet The Baroness - The world's longest snake . . . . . . . . . .  Herp Photo of the Day . . . . . . . . . .  Updates? . . . . . . . . . .  Herp Photo of the Day . . . . . . . . . .  The mechanics behind the viper strike . . . . . . . . . .  Snakes on a Train? . . . . . . . . . .  Tracking the animals in the Florida Everglades - Meet the Croc Docs . . . . . . . . . .  Reintroduction attempts give San Francisco Garter a second chance . . . . . . . . . .  Promoting Reptiles is Our Jam Man . . . . . . . . . .  Origins of Chytrid discovered . . . . . . . . . .  Wisdom Wednesday - The Forums - The water is warm... Come on in! . . . . . . . . . .  Kingsnake.com Past, Present and Future . . . . . . . . . .  IHS Celebrates 50 years . . . . . . . . . .  End of January 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Fun Fact Friday - Green Tree Monitor . . . . . . . . . .  The Evolution of the Osteoderm discovered . . . . . . . . . .  PACNWRS Expo Jan 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  CRE - Jun. 20-21, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Colorado Herp Society Meeting - June 20, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Chicago Herpetological Society Meeting - June 21, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Bay Area Herpetological Society Meeting - June 26, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Tinley NARBC June - Jun 27-28 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  DFW Herp Society Meeting - June 27, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Greater Cincinnati Herp Society Meeting - July 01, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Reptile Super Show & LA Pet Fair - July 11-12 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  PACNWRS - Jul. 11-12, 2026 . . . . . . . . . .  Colorado Herp Society Meeting - July 18, 2026 . . . . . . . . . . 

RE: the Noah's Ark method of conservation...

[ Login ] [ User Prefs ] [ Search Forums ] [ Back to Main Page ] [ Back to Rat Snakes ]

Posted by: dustyrhoads at Mon Jun 28 12:55:19 2010   [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by dustyrhoads ]  
   

>>

>>You really think that subocs from only one mile away would not survive if relocated? I seriously doubt that. I don't think we would have to preserve each of the tiniest variations of each species for them to be successful. They can adapt and suvive with good habitat and food supply.

>>-----

>>King Snakes! Who can make a better mouse trap?

>> J Sierra






Research shows otherwise, my friend. It has nothing to do with my opinions or what I or you or anybody else thinks. For species like Yellowstone Gray Wolves, sea turtles, and birds that have enormous ranges, a mile won't make a difference, but this is not the case with terrestrial herps with tiny home ranges.



For highly variable species like Subocs and Desert Horned Lizards, for instance, populations vary from canyon to canyon, or from outcrop to outcrop. Yes, even from much less than a mile away, in many cases. A population among a volcanic outcrop will typically match that outcrop in color, often black or very dark. Now visit a population adjacent to that one with a limestone outcrop, and the specimens will be light-colored again. You see this in nature just about everywhere you look. For an example of some original research in this arena, check out this page at the University of Idaho --> people.ibest.uidaho.edu/~bree/research.html, and read the section called "Ecological Divergence in Reptiles". You can't ignore selection. Taking population genetics into account is a major part of what is called assessing the competence of a reintroduction program group or augmentation program group prior to release.



From Daniel Fairbanks' book Relics of Eden, he was referring to some of Darwin's postulates when he said that, "Varieties in nature usually occupy specific geographic regions, and members of the same variety preferentially mate with one another. Geographic barriers (such as rivers, canyons, mountain ranges, etc.) typically isolate then from other varieties of the same species." This is what is going on in the research I linked to above.



Not only do those geographic barriers exist, but there are reproductive barriers to boot, called sexual selection. Females will often only choose males that have the best genes -- genes that are adapted to the environment in which they live, NOT a genetically isolated canyon one or two miles away. This is also going on in the Rosenblum research above.



Are there distinct canyons in Trans-Pecos habitat from one mile to another that isolate gene flow and drive selection? Yes. How do we know? The snakes from those canyons match the substrate found in each canyon. Are these traits selected for? Certainly. Does that play a role in survival and selection? You betcha.



Here's some more resources for the role of genetics in reintroduction programs:



Vergeer, P., E. Sonderen, and N. Joop Ouborg. 2004. Introduction strategies put to the test: local adaptation versus heterosis. Conserv. Biol. 18:812–821.





Sawyer, M. W., and J. T. Baccus. 1996. Movement ecology and thermal biology of Bogertophis subocularis (Brown) from Texas (Serpentes: Colubridae). Southwestern Nat. 41: 182-186.



There was also an interesting study looking at the fate of relocated rattlesnakes here --> Nowak, E.M. (1998) Implications of nuisance rattlesnake relocation at Montezuma Castle National Monument. Sonoran Herpetologist, 11(1). Pp. 1-4.

*This page addresses the rattlesnake study some: webspinners.com/coloherp/cb-news/Vol-28/cbn-0110/RamblingReptiles.html.



Also, individuals do not adapt. Populations adapt. Adaptation, in the biological meaning of the word, is passing on genes that are beneficial to the next generation. A genetically incompetent group reintroduced or augmented to a wild population will not survive, will not reproduce, and thus, no adaptation will take place.



DR
Suboc.com


   

[ Hide Replies ]


>> Next topic:  About everglades ratsnakes...????? - joann42, Mon Jun 28 17:41:44 2010
<< Previous topic:  Philodryas viridissimus LAYS 11: - Oxyrhopus, Sun Jun 27 07:29:15 2010

Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You Click to visit Sierra Fish and Pets Click here to visit Classifieds
KINGSNAKE.COM

Enjoy all our content free of charge with a user account that gives you full access to every feature. For added visibility, paid options are available - post in our Classifieds, showcase your business with Banner Ads or a Directory listing, promote reptile events, and more.

Quick Links
Community
Legal & Safety
Support

Register for free ✓ Sign up!

Kingsnake.com ® is a registered trademark © 1997-