Vets suck… they don’t know what their doing… they killed my reptile…

For some reason there is a negative connotation for veterinarians on many boards. Some think that they know more and can do things themselves better than a vet. Others go to the vet and then start a thread where everyone chimes in on how the vet is wrong. I read this kind of stuff all the time on boards. While many may be doing what they feel is the best thing it doesn’t mean that mistakes aren’t made and things aren’t done incorrectly. The road to hell is paved with good intentions…

In addition to this there is a huge amount of mis-information presented all the time as fact. I usually read this stuff an ignore it cause for some reason no matter how I try to educate people based on my education and experience, I’m the bad guy because I’m the vet and I disagree with what people have learned on the net.

I am a veterinarian. Not the kind that you bring your dog and cat to down the street, I’m a surgeon. When regular vets have cases they don’t feel comfortable doing surgery on they send them to me. That’s all I do. I have done a lot of surgery on reptiles and other exotics. I have also done research involving reptiles specifically in the area of surgery and anesthesia. I also keep and breed reptiles. I have ball pythons, RTBs, and GTPs. I do this as a hobby like everyone else and I read these forums to gain information and share ideas.

Occasionally I come across posts, like this one, that are disturbing to me. I don’t know everything and I'm not claiming to. That is why I read forums like everyone else. There are some things that I do know a lot about. I would like to clarify some things in this thread and then everyone is free to bash what I say like usual…
It is my opinion based on my experience as a vet, a surgeon, and reptile breeder that attempting surgery (especially this type) without anesthesia, analgesia, or training was not fair to this animal. Ectopia cordis is not something that can be corrected on a kitchen table with dental floss no matter how “clean and neat” it was. It is typical when organs develop in abnormal places, extensive reconstructive surgery is needed to put them back where they belong.
Secondly it is my opinion that the method of euthanasia was not appropriate. The American Veterinary Medical Association panel on euthanasia does not consider conventional freezing as an acceptable way to euthanize reptiles. The development of ice crystals in the tissues likely causes pain prior to death. When freezing is used it should only be done after heavy sedation or anesthesia.
I am sorry that nobody that could provide adequate services was available that lead the original poster to attempt something so complicated. There is no doubt in my mind he was doing what he thought was best, but in the end it’s the snake that could have had a better chance under better circumstances.

"Furthermore, there is significant evidence from both research and veterinary care that snakes have little or no pain receptors on their ventral side. Which is why researchers implant PIT tags at the edge of the ventral scales, less stress to the animal so it can be released immediately"

I would like to see this evidence because I believe your statement is incorrect. There is no doubt that snakes have pain receptors on their ventrum. I have given injections for anesthesia and they react. EVERY time. They react in the same way as when an IM injection is given. They react because the obviously feel it and are trying to avoid a painful stimulus. The selection of the surgical exposure away from the ventrum has nothing to do with pain receptors.

In snakes celiotomy is best performed at the lateral margin of the body where the scutes and scales are in apposition. When the incision is closed it will not interfere with the flat conformation of the ventral scutes. The lateral apporach is also easier to keep clean because it is not in direct contact with the substrate or ground. Finally snakes have a large vein running directly on the ventral midline that is avoided by using a lateral approach.

“Wouldn't that also attribute to why so many snakes are burned if their owners use heat rocks? I always wondered why...when a snake felt itself burning, it would just stay on the rock. The lack of pain receptors on the ventral side makes sense”

There is no good answer why reptiles will stay on or under a heat source that is burning them, but it is not related to distribution of pain receptors. When they do have burns they are certainly sensitive during treatment so they do feel it. I have also seen burns all over the place form improper heat sources. On the ventrum from heat rocks, on the dorsum from light bulbs that were to hot, and on the sides after a reptile coiled around a light bulb that was exposed in the enclosure. There are theories such as lacking a withdrawl reflex (this happens when you touch a hot stove and pull back before you even realize you touched it), differences in pain and heat receptors, lack of reasoning (unable to associate burning with being on or near a heat source). Bottom line is until they start talking and tell someone why they do what they do there will never be a definitive answer.

A few last comments…
If someone that I didn’t know came and asked me for a suture kit or any surgical instruments there is NO WAY I would sell it to them. In the litigious society we live the risk of getting sued or reported to the licensing board is too high. If I sell someone a suture kit and they use it for something other that what they claim guess who gets in trouble…

“it would be great if you didn't let those little sausages touch a key on your keyboard before you start jumbling out some duechebag spill”

Sorry but I am free to express my opinions and post whatever and whenever I want.
-----
Michael McFadden, M.S., D.V.M.

[ Show Entire Thread ]