Jim, Doug and I had a pretty lengthy conversation last night regarding views on the taxonomy of the E. obsoleta complex. My opinion is gravitating towards all the E. obsoleta complex being basically the same animal genotypically, but with geographical varieties or phenotypes being observed in nature. This phenotypical expression (and possibly "minor" deviations to genotypical expression??) can include other features such as overall size/robustness/lithness, habitat preference, etc., as well as the more observable color/pattern differences. However, strip all coloration from the various "subspecies" and they all are basically the same snake from what I can tell. As far as range maps are concerned, you can overlay range maps from several peer-reviewed scientific sources and see definite differnces of ranges. These range sources are not meant to be end-all definitions IMO and are always open to change based on new information being added all the time. Also, add to the mix that some folks will still label a variant or subspecies from certain areas as having "influence" from neighboring variants or subspecies. This led to a question I posed to Doug of "When does a variation/subspecies stop showing influences from neighboring variants/subspecies and start becoming classified as a true integrade?"

Taxonomy is a system of classification or organization to better allow the human brain to absorb and process information and communicate IMO. We see certain images of animals based on this system which allows us to more effectively communicate to others as best as possible about what we are referring to. Thats why common names can be very confusing to herpers because we all have different common names for the same snake in different areas within the same "range".

I do believe the phenotypical expressions of these animals represent unique habitats, conditions, and other factors that were involved in making these animals appear the way they do today and I think it is important to preserve this uniqueness as much as possible. Their appearances represent the history of their population/race/variant and all their trials and tribulations that made them appear the way they do today. I am more apt to look at the location information of a Common Rat Snake more than the taxonomic names of quadrivittata, obsoleta, rosalleni, or lindheimeri in MY determination of what it best represents as far as Yellow, Black, Everglades, or Texas variety.

Sorry if I rambled. Maybe its just time for my daily shock treatment LOL!!!

[ Hide Replies ]

• greenish ratsnake picts - Sonya, Sun Dec 5 13:47:44 2010
• awesome Sonya! - DMong, Sun Dec 5 16:39:11 2010
• awesome Sonya and Doug - monklet, Mon Dec 6 09:50:46 2010
• RE: awesome Sonya and Doug - DMong, Mon Dec 6 10:46:58 2010
• BTW...... - DMong, Sun Dec 5 22:50:53 2010
• By Range... - foxturtle, Mon Dec 6 12:57:28 2010
• NOPE! - DMong, Mon Dec 6 13:47:12 2010
• Nope? - foxturtle, Mon Dec 6 16:30:03 2010
• RE: Nope? - Godfrey, Tue Dec 7 20:32:04 2010
• RE: Nope? - foxturtle, Tue Dec 7 20:43:18 2010
• RE: Nope? - Sonya, Wed Dec 8 11:52:58 2010
• RE: Nope? - DMong, Wed Dec 8 11:54:58 2010
• Just to the west... - Foxturtle, Wed Dec 8 17:39:41 2010
• RE: Just to the west... - DMong, Wed Dec 8 18:08:23 2010
• RE: Just to the west... - foxturtle, Wed Dec 8 20:34:58 2010
• RE: Just to the west... - DMong, Wed Dec 8 22:31:26 2010
• RE: Just to the west... - draybar, Thu Dec 9 17:17:03 2010
• RE: Just to the west... - DMong, Thu Dec 9 17:42:20 2010
• RE: Just to the west... - draybar, Thu Dec 9 18:06:22 2010
• Very cool! - DMong, Thu Dec 9 18:11:39 2010
• RE: Just to the west... - foxturtle, Fri Dec 10 08:52:43 2010
• RE: Just to the west... - DMong, Fri Dec 10 13:07:53 2010
• Not faith, Doug... - foxturtle, Sun Dec 12 20:47:11 2010
• RE: Just to the west... - Godfrey, Thu Dec 9 18:40:50 2010
• RE: Nope? - Godfrey, Wed Dec 8 14:33:54 2010
• Interesting Topic!!! - KevinM, Thu Dec 9 10:28:20 2010
• RE: BTW...... - Sonya, Mon Dec 6 21:03:05 2010
• RE: BTW...... - DMong, Mon Dec 6 21:11:31 2010
• RE: BTW...... - Sonya, Tue Dec 7 12:44:44 2010
• RE: BTW...... - DMong, Tue Dec 7 13:49:38 2010
• RE: greenish ratsnake picts - Godfrey, Sat Dec 11 11:22:59 2010
• RE: greenish ratsnake picts - Sonya, Sun Dec 12 12:54:08 2010