Hey Frank,

I am going to break up your post a bit here. Not because I am trying to rip it apart, but because it is just easier to follow.



FR wrote:

***"Its there anybody out there that is keeping hogs not in shoeboxes and would like to share your observations?"***



I happen to keep adult hognose snakes in 36 quart "shoe boxes" and I have a couple in "naturalistic" set ups. Honestly, they do the same things and display the same behaviors in both types of set ups. I see no difference. And yes, they have "life experiences" in both set ups. If your "shoe box" is set up properly, it will work just as well as a "natural" set up.



FR wrote:

***"For you shoebox keepers, I have no need to use shoe/sweater boxes, and for several reasons, One is, I am one of the founders of that method. So I do have some understanding of its benefits and its drawbacks and it has both."***



Yes Frank, We all realize that you have invented all of the current keeping methods. Being that you were the "founder" of keeping snakes in a rack set up, why not let us know what the drawbacks are. I think if you want to set your hogs up in natural type set ups, that is great. I for one would love to see what you do. In fact, that is one of the reasons I was happy to see you showing an interest in keeping the species. I do not agree with everything you have to say but I do respect your level of commitment to captive husbandry.



FR wrote:

***"I cannot house lots of hogs, so there is no need for that. And I do have lots of space."***



Like I said, I am looking foward to seeing what you do when it comes to snake keeping and naturalistic housing.



FR wrote:

***"Also, I am a fan of behavior, not only keepers behavior(as odd as it is) more importantly the snakes behavior. And I understand everything we do limits that, and shoeboxes take that to the extreme."***



Well from what I have seen, it does not limit it at all. That is when it comes to captive hogs. From what I can tell so far, setting them up in larger naturalistic cages does not change a thing.



FR wrote:

***"I tend to approach animals in a naive way, that is, I know nothing, they know everything. Its fun that way. I get no joy in telling animals what to do, oh except my dog."***



But in captivity, you are not telling your snakes what to do. What we do is just what nature does. They are reacting to outside pressures in nature and they do the same in captivity. What are we actually "telling" our snakes to do in captivity in your opinion?



FR wrote:

***"I little history, I am not a newbie to snakes, been keeping and breeding them for a long time, 1959 or so, and kings since 1964. I have bred three types of hogs, easterns, pygmys and mexicans, but all were a very long time ago, over thirty years ago."***



That is awesome.

So, has the "pygmy" hognose gone extinct since 1964? Never heard of the species before.



FR wrote:

***"So to me, its more then just breeding them, which is why I am taking the approach I am taking."***



It is more than just breeding them for most of us.



FR wrote:

***"It appears my approach scares some folks, I apologise for that, really theres nothing I can do to change that. I cannot change my history and I do not want to change yours. I do wonder why some folks are so insecure, They come off as successful, and if so, why would you care or be bothered by what anyone else does? AGain, as a fan of behavior, that does interest me, but only in a casual way."***



Frank, there is nothing scary about you. You are not scaring anyone. Your approach pisses people off. I happen to think you enjoy that. Even super secure people do not like to be belittled on public forums or otherwise.



FR wrote:

***"I am also a fan of all these beautiful morphs, and unlike many field guys, I think its great."***



Whats not to like? These beautiful morphs happen in the wild. In fact, most of the current base morphs were wild caught. Some were even adults when they were wild collected. Why would a field guy not like naturally occuring genetic defects that can actually thrive in the wild?



FR wrote:

***"So if you have something to share with me, I thank you for that. Cheers "***



I have shared. It may not be the profound answer you are looking to hear but it is what I can tell you from my personal experience.

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